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 Post subject: A confused Newbie
PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 2:32 pm 

Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 2:25 pm
Posts: 2
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Would love some help...

I live in Seattle, WA and have purchased a home with single aluminum windows...

Need to replace them ASAP.

I've had Pella, REnewal by Andersen, Millgard and Simonton out to bid the job...

Each one tells me that their product is the best...Each of tehm contradicts the otehr manufacturer...

Teh Pella and Andersen guys are telling me that I'll have aproblem with Vinyl given the large window openings I have...Telling me that the Vinyl windows will sag and that the seals will break.

The vinyl guy is saying that sagging is not an issue with vinyl.

Teh Andersen guy is telling me that the Pella Fiberglass has issues and that it will require maintenance.

I'd like to get them all in room and have them defend their comments against the other window guys.

Would appreciate any guidance...I have 32 windows and three sliders that I intend to convert to french doors


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 7:22 am 

Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 9:22 pm
Posts: 301
Location: Peoria, IL
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Well, here's some things to think about.
Wood - Does not last, no matter what they do to it. In time, it WILL rot, it will crack, it will break. Wood these days, has a life expectancy of 10 - 15 years, depending on how well you maintain it. Andersons frames only have a 10 year warranty.
Wood/vinyl clad is not so great either. Wood expands rapidly in the heat. Vinyl doesn't burn until it gets to 105 degrees, centigrade, so if the wood inside the vinyl expands and contracts over tiem, what do you think will happen to the vinyl coating?
Aluminum clad too, you'll chance a coloder frame from the aluminum re-inforcing bars.
Vinyl - has the same insulative qualities as wood. Truly 100% rigid vinyl is strong, and most companies use some kind of re-inforcement in their windows, like stainless steel or hardened, resonated industrial foam bars. Good companies, anyhow.
Anyone I've ever dealt with that had Anderson windows say they'll never go back to Anderson.
Also, ANY aluminum in the windows, particularly the spacer betwen the panes of glass is not good. Aluminum is a soft metal that conducts cold.
Also, not mentioned, but if you live in a moderate climate, you don't need krypton gas, as much as you may in a colder climate. So, stay away from Aluminum or intercept spacers.
Every salesman is going to say theirs is the best, and tell you all the reasons why and most are really telling you some facts, but over all, just trying to get the sale.
Keep this in mind, too. There are a lot of companies that sell junk vinyl windows. make sure you're getting something that is 100% vinyl, not something that has reground recycled plastic in it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 8:46 am 

Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 11:12 pm
Posts: 12
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I know aluminum spacers are bad, but I thought the intercept spacers were good??? Please let me know because I ordered windows with the intercept spacer in them and want to know why they are no good, and what options I have. TIA.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 1:24 pm 

Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2005 10:11 am
Posts: 428
Location: New Jersey
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Voldaddy:

I wouldn’t say the Intercept spacer is bad; it’s actually a big improvement over the old aluminum spacer in terms of design and conductivity. Intercept and the competing product from Cardinal is probably the most widely used spacer in the industry and I would expect it to perform reasonably well over time.

Is Intercept as good as Super Spacer or TPS? No they both conduct less energy and their long term ability to retain argon gas and prevent moisture penetration is the best.

If you can upgrade the spacer, do it but I would not panic based on the use of the Intercept Spacer.

Bill
Uneeda Window of NJ


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 4:35 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:10 pm
Posts: 222
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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Jangell, like Hipkat said all salesman tell you their product is better than the other. Pella's Impervia fiberglass window out performs the Andersen window so well they are scared of it. As for issues with it I'm not aware of any and I deal with Pella daily. Kick the Andersen rep down the road! Funny thing about the Andersen salesman saying vinyl is bad is. The Andersen windows are made with vinyl. The wood window has a vinyl cladding on the outside and the Renewal window has a composite product that is made with ground up vinyl. Pellas Impervia window is the only thing even remotely close to the best window around made by Schuco. They aren't available in your neck of the woods quite yet. Simonton also offers a very good choice of windows for your home. Pella or Simonton will do you very well. As for vinyl sagging, it's not true. Vinyl is very rigid with all the multiple chambers inside that keep it strong. I know it's hard to weed out the garbage but I think you have enough info to help you along.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 11:41 am 

Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2005 12:57 am
Posts: 135
Location: ne ohio
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guy, vinyl will not sag? i have three 36" bottom sash rails that i keep in the trunk of my car. each made by a different manufacturer and they look like bananas. the problem is some companies do not reinforce or use multi-chamber construction in their sash rails.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 2:00 pm 
windowrep, the trunk of a car in the hot sun is a lot hotter than anything the side of a house will ever endure. If you put an insulated glass panel in your trunk I'm pretty sure it would fail also. A sealed trunk is more closely related to an OVEN than it is to the side of a house.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:29 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:10 pm
Posts: 222
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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Windowrep, I guess my bad for not clarifying my statement in more detail. My actual point was there isn't a vinyl that will sag if it is installed correctly. You are correct on the lack of multi chambered sills in vinyl. If the window is not set in a bed of caulk on a firm service and requires shimming. The unit must be shimmed in each corner. Not the far edge next to the jack stud. The shim needs to sit under each side jamb and under the sill pocket of each unit. So it will support the jamb and the pocket so the force of any sash won't sheer off the sill. Seen this many times!!! We set our shims the long way under the sill in at least four places. It's also good to use a fiberglass insulation first to chink it in half way and then foam behind it. This will keep the sill supported and firm. Sorry I didn't make that more clear.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 7:24 pm 

Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2005 12:57 am
Posts: 135
Location: ne ohio
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dan, the bottom sashes were like that when they were removed from the house. that is why the homeowner wanted the windows replaced in the first place. besides the trunk is exactly where i keep my sample window and it is in a black case with a black cover on it and it is fine.

guy, i don't think we are talking about thesame part of a window. it sounds to me you are talking about the sill. i have never seen a sill sag but i have seen them bow upwards. i am talking about the bottom of the window sash. with the lift rail on it. the bottom frame of the ig unit. you know what iam talking about. sorry about the confusion.


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 Post subject: What about comfort design
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 7:29 pm 

Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 2:25 pm
Posts: 2
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I am also looking at a company called Comfort Design out of Tacoma Washington...

The Royal Line Series...

They have a lifetime warranty which includes pull out and install of a failed window.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2005 8:00 am 

Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 9:22 pm
Posts: 301
Location: Peoria, IL
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Those sagg yrails you have probably did so because they're not 100% vinyl, nor are they reinforced, I'm guessing. Recycled plastic will sag over time, in the sun. I see it all the time. I just replaced 2 last night that aren't even 5 years old, that the customer bought based on price alone. Plastic softens in the hot sun. Those rails are probably a vinyl/regrind mix.

BTW, I know none of you heard of them, because I asked what you think about them, but they're growing. I sold Schuco and now I sell Vista and the differences are negligable..... The cost, way below Schuco, errr, FJB's version/ prices anyhow.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 9:40 am 

Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2005 8:48 pm
Posts: 323
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Jangell,
I only scanned over some of the responses after I read your post. Of the 4 companies you looked at I would look at the Milgard Classic series vinyl. This commercially rated vinyl will not sag, If the span would be great enough to sag the engineers at Milgard would not make it. The headquarters for the company are in Seattle/Tacoma, so service is really close(all the red trucks will MM on the door). The warranty to you is much stronger than the other 3. If the span is great and you are really concerned then the Milgard Ultra(fiberglass) line is nice but beware of their fiberglass double hung, the only product they make that needs attention. I like the classic sliding door as well. There are other companies that I like as well because everyone makes the best something for a specific application. I hope this helps. Other national brands on my buy list include schucco, gorell and Infinity from Marvin. There are several other brands that are good and several which frequently need service and eventually replacement.


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