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 Post subject: Re: OKNA Windows, U-Factor .15
PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 11:02 am 
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Location: DC Metropolitan Area-Maryland/Virginia/DC
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Window4U (IL) wrote:
First off, the illustration of the Schuco extrusions is from Starmark, not Schuco.

I'm not 'dissing' Starmark as I think it is a good window for east coast consumers to look at, but... this "thickness" sales pitch of showing a big block of cellular pvc next to a UPVC multi-chamber extrusion is misleading IMO to consumers as proportional thickness of these two window materials and how they are manufactured has little to do with their final product strength.

The Schuco now has a DP70 (203mph) hurricane rating as does the Softlite Elements, (the Elements also has a .15 u-value). .....What is the Starmark DP rating since we're comparing strength?


I agree that the frame and sash thickness of the cellular pvc is not a tremendous selling point to industry professionals. Some consumers like the look of it compared to a extruded pvc frame but we preach DP compared to DP. The Starmark, with zero reinforcement, has very good DP numbers (60, as mentioned by windowinfo). I really boils down to a mass issue. That thick profile is not solid as compared to a standard extruded pvc frame. There are little air pockets trapped in that composite that add insulation value while keeping the weight down as compared to an extrusion of that thickness that were solid.

While I would like as strong a window I could get in my home, the difference from DP60 to DP70 is really not a deciding factor. Anything over 50 and without he utilization of metal or kevlar is impressive.

You know that I like the Schuco and Soft-Lite products as well too.


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 Post subject: Re: OKNA Windows, U-Factor .15
PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 11:09 am 

Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2006 9:50 am
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How does OKNA top sash tilt in for cleaning? 8)

The samples that i saw you had to force it to come out of side jambs!


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 Post subject: Re: OKNA Windows, U-Factor .15
PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 1:45 pm 

Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2007 1:19 pm
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windowman pa wrote:
How does OKNA top sash tilt in for cleaning? 8)

The samples that i saw you had to force it to come out of side jambs!


You do have to pull on them to tilt them. Its actually works easier for our elderly customers to tilt in the top sash. They have a much harder time pushing in the latches and pulling the sash in. Thats one of the features I love about the Starmark.


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 Post subject: Re: OKNA Windows, U-Factor .15
PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 1:47 pm 
you have to "pull the top sash" for it to tilt?
does the bottom sash have a tilt latch?
this sound like the way thermal industries works. its awkward in my opinion.


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 Post subject: Re: OKNA Windows, U-Factor .15
PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 1:53 pm 

Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2007 1:19 pm
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krypton wrote:
you have to "pull the top sash" for it to tilt?
does the bottom sash have a tilt latch?
this sound like the way thermal industries works. its awkward in my opinion.



The bottom does have tilt latches. It really isnt awkward at all. You pull down the top sash, grab the top and pull in towards you, done...


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 Post subject: Re: OKNA Windows, U-Factor .15
PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 2:10 pm 
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Not particularly awkward once the window is installed. It is a pain in the but on a table top sample.


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 Post subject: Re: OKNA Windows, U-Factor .15
PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 2:19 pm 
thats where people try out windows though. if they think its awkward,it could be a tough sell.


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 Post subject: Re: OKNA Windows, U-Factor .15
PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 3:03 pm 
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It is not that much harder than working the tilt latches on a table top version either.

I assure you that it is not a selling detractor.


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 Post subject: Re: OKNA Windows, U-Factor .15
PostPosted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 6:25 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2006 9:50 am
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In a past life i sold new construction windows with same pull in & hope the vinyl didn't break when you did.

Malta windows GONE!

So many problems with vinyl jambs breaking in cold and now Malta is out of business!

If tilt buttons are a good idea for bottom sash, how can you say they are not needed for top?


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 Post subject: Re: OKNA Windows, U-Factor .15
PostPosted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 7:57 pm 

Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2007 1:19 pm
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windowman pa wrote:
In a past life i sold new construction windows with same pull in & hope the vinyl didn't break when you did.

Malta windows GONE!

So many problems with vinyl jambs breaking in cold and now Malta is out of business!

If tilt buttons are a good idea for bottom sash, how can you say they are not needed for top?


Its nothing like the compression jamb windows you once sold. OKNA calls it the Wind Jammer.

Image

When you pull down the top sash it pushes in the wind jammer so you can pull in the top sash. It works really nice.

Image


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 Post subject: Re: OKNA Windows, U-Factor .15
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 7:49 am 

Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2006 9:50 am
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Window Info:

You're telling me this is easy for a 70-year-old lady to tilt sash in?

If so great why tilt buttons ONLY ON BOTTOM SASH?

OKNA can't have it both ways!

I personally tried large display unit in dealers showroom and it was very hard to tilt top sash :oops:


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 Post subject: Re: OKNA Windows, U-Factor .15
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 9:04 am 

Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2007 1:19 pm
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windowman pa wrote:
Window Info:

You're telling me this is easy for a 70-year-old lady to tilt sash in?

If so great why tilt buttons ONLY ON BOTTOM SASH?

OKNA can't have it both ways!

I personally tried large display unit in dealers showroom and it was very hard to tilt top sash :oops:


windowman pa wrote:
In a past life i sold new construction windows with same pull in & hope the vinyl didn't break when you did.


Are you sure it was an OKNA Starmark you tried? You said you sold windows with the compression jambs before just like the OKNA. If you seen and operated an OKNA you would of know they are nothing like the windows you sold!


A 70 year old lady has a much easier time tilting in the OKNA top sash. Usually on the top sash the tilt latches are recessed and when your 70 sometimes your fingers don't work as good as they did when you were younger. When the window is installed correctly it doesn't take much force at all to pull in the top sash. We never had one compliant about that.

Like I said before the OKNA is just one of the windows we sell I'm not saying the the OKNA Starmark is the best window on the market but its a very good one.

The wind jammer helps eliminate drafts. It extends from the top of the frame to the bottom (Inside on the top sash, Outside on the bottom) so you can use tilt latches for the bottom sash.
It a nice design.
Here is a pic of a regular vinyl window and a Starmark to show you the difference.
Image


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 Post subject: Re: OKNA Windows, U-Factor .15
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 11:13 am 
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Location: Northern & Central Illinois, Chicago suburbs
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Both windows have impressive features and performance. They are both premium windows at the top of the window industry quality range and would be good choices for homeowners to include in their window search. In my opinion trying to say one is way better than the other is unproductive as they both have big time positives and few negatives.


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 Post subject: Re: OKNA Windows, U-Factor .15
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 12:23 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:32 pm
Posts: 616
Location: Delaware, New Jersey, Philadephia Area
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If I'm not mistaken the windjammer top sash and frame system is not available with the stainable woodgrain interior laminate? I was told it's only on white and tan Starmarks. I think they use a regular tilt latch system on the woodgrains?

I'll be the first out there to say that all 70 year old women are going to have a hard time tilting any top sashes on almost any window. I like the sharkfin latches on the Sunrise and Vanguard lines for my older folks. They seem to tilt inwards with the least amount of resistance. Don't get Dave going with his experience at a home show a few years ago because I know how right he is about the situation. How many service calls have you Pros incurred with customers claiming to having a broken balance only to find when you got out to the house that the homeowner attempted to tilt the bottom sash before raising it enough to have enough room for the sash to clear the interior sill dam? Now the pivot bar can't lock into the balance shoe because it's stuck at the bottom of the sill. And the sash is a danger of breaking because it cannot be secured properly in the jamb. Not all windows will allow this to happen, I'm just ranting as to a local scumbag dealer that changed his company name and told all of his former customers that the manufacturer of their windows went out of business and it was not his problem anymore. Now, I get the service calls.


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 Post subject: Re: OKNA Windows, U-Factor .15
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 7:23 am 

Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2009 8:28 pm
Posts: 34
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I am looking @ Okna/Starmark windows. They are new to the Boston area. I would be very appreciative in hearing from anyone who has had Okna windows installed, in the Boston area and other areas too ---pricing , quality of install, overall satisfaction? Their numbers are hard to beat. Thanks.


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