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 Post subject: help needed
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 7:35 pm 

Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 7:20 pm
Posts: 1
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I need to choose between Sears windows (not the top of the line, the downgraded version with less space between the glass) , the window from Champion Windows, and Window world. The price quote is for 12 fairly large windows on a home built in 1920.

sears is $7204
championwindow is $7600
window world is $4183


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2005 7:31 am 

Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 9:22 pm
Posts: 301
Location: Peoria, IL
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Can I ask a question?? Why are you purposely buying cheap, junk windows???
Even that Sears price is too high for the quality of window they (don't) have.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2005 11:51 pm 

Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 9:34 pm
Posts: 81
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Hip
What would you sell him for $512 per window?
Or $350 per window installed that he wouldnt be wasting his money on, That is equal to what he was getting from the lowest bidder?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 7:28 am 

Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 9:22 pm
Posts: 301
Location: Peoria, IL
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12 fairly large windows...., in that 93" range, double hungs:
for about 7000, give or take, I can sell him Vista's panorama 2000's.
100% vinyl, reinforced by hardened, resonated foam bars, welded seams, double pane, argon filled, lowE quad, TRUE R-4, U-value .25, super spacer, et al, installed, complete. With a great lifetime warranty, that includes glass breakage, and no stupid exclusions like product failure, acts of god, etc....
1000% better than the windows he's looking at.

And if he's in WNY or Norther PA, email me, and It'll be done, installed in a month or less.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 8:36 pm 

Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2005 8:48 pm
Posts: 323
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Dennis,
In the window industry you hope you get what you pay for. The windows and numbers stated should get you a high end replacement window and this upper area is abused by mid-end lines trying to command high end price to re-coup their excessive advertising dollars. What I believe HipCat is telling you is that you can get great windows for that amount of money and that you should shop around. They are not a value. You can do better.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 6:27 am 

Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 9:22 pm
Posts: 301
Location: Peoria, IL
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Exactly!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 10:36 pm 

Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 9:34 pm
Posts: 81
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With the exception of lowe quad and a foam filled frame he could get the W/W windows for half of your 7000 with low E 2, glass breakage,still welded frame ,sash,spacer .25. No stupid exclusions( not sure what that is) Could up grade to Low E quad But why?
Are they going to save $3500 in heating and cooling with a foam filled frame? Even with Low E quad? They can still be installed with in a month complete Double pane ,great warranty , virgin vinyl(depending on whos defenition on this site been several debates lately)
So why 3500 more?
Ok I,ll throw in Low E quad for say $50 per window $600 I,m upto $4100 The foam filled frame still isnt going to save me $2900 over 20 years.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 8:11 pm 

Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 9:22 pm
Posts: 301
Location: Peoria, IL
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Well, the foam filled frame is no big deal anyhow, since vinyl has the same insulative qualities as wood.
The foam I was talking about is a hardened 'bar" giving the frame additional strenght. and I can beat 7000, I was just using the numbers he got.

Stupid exclusions is the typical warranty that excludes fire, flood, windstorm, tornado, huricane, earthquake, vandalism, terorism, pollution, salt water, acid rain, acts of god, etc.
Vista doesn't have that.

And yes, would someone PLEASE tell me about true virgin vinyl???
One guy says only 3 companies have it. Everyone "claims" to have it.
What IS the damn deal???


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:21 pm 

Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 9:34 pm
Posts: 81
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Personally I wouldnt cover stupid exclusions If you need fire hurricane, etc. thats covered under homeowners insurance anyway.
Acid rain give me a break. Just to be funny how bout if if broke wind over it and the smell wouldnt leave (Do you Cover that?) Any exclusions?
If the frame extrusions are top quality they do not need any help (even mid quality)
Nothing you added still explains a almost $3000 to $3400 difference
between his other two highest bidders or even your off the cuff bid.
If you want to say its installation. Well we all know some very good installers although we would all like to think we are the best or use only the best. For every bad one there is at least 6 good ones and they all seem to know each other.
If this customer did not like the job an installer did i could have it redone 5 or 6 times and still not equal the $3000 difference between the other 2


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 12:10 am 

Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 11:12 pm
Posts: 12
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Handyman,

I take it you think Window World windows are ok? I signed my contract with them and am waiting for them to come in. I am getting 13 DH, Low-E & argon with grids, 1 picture window, Low-E/argon, no grids, and 1 swing & clean 2 slider Low-E/argon, all are virgin vinyl, etc......installed/trimmed for $4200.

HipKat-why do you say they are junk? Because you sell a different brand? What makes your window superior to these? I had 4 in-home demos and thought Window World was best.

Thanks!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 6:16 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:10 pm
Posts: 225
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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WW uses the Alside window. As a matter of fact I think the mother company of Alside is also the mother of WW. They are affiliated some how. It doesn't make much difference anyway. It's all about the installation in the long run anyway. You get what you pay for and if it happens to come with a good installer.....you've done well. If not.....your SOL. Good Luck in any case. I hope you get the better end of the deal.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 7:57 am 

Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 9:22 pm
Posts: 301
Location: Peoria, IL
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Handyman, why are you butting heads with me? Ididn't say 7000 was my price. I said that for the 7000 he was offered, I could give him much better windows.
As far as Window World, they have intercept (aluminum) spacer which I always advise against, they use regrind in their frames, which is bad, they have lowE not double lowE or lowE quad, wich is not as good, they have shoddy warrantee's and they use sub contrctors to install (which CAN be but isn't alway's a bad thing).
And I'm sorry, but I'm gonna guess people in the gulf coast are going to get a little pissed when they hear about an Act of God clause in their warranty's.
I was in Homestead, Fl a year after Hurricane Andrew, andI saw plenty of house that had spray painted notices about how their insurance wouldn't cover the damage done because of loop hole clauses.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 8:31 am 

Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2005 10:11 am
Posts: 430
Location: New Jersey
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Intercept is not aluminum it is tin-plated steel that is about 70% less conductive than aluminum and considered a warm edge spacer. It has a U-shaped design that flexes with the glass as it expands and contracts helping keep the seal intact unlike the box shaped aluminum spacers that do not give at all and will sometimes causes pressure cracks.

Intercept is not nearly as good as Superspacer or TPS but it is a big improvement over the old aluminum spacer.

Bill
Uneeda Window


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 12:23 pm 

Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 9:22 pm
Posts: 301
Location: Peoria, IL
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Yah, you're right. I think I was having a brain fizle when I wrote that.
It's still metal, it's still conductive.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 10:18 pm 

Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 9:34 pm
Posts: 81
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Hip
You said for 7000 you could do beter you never said yo could come close to 4100.
Your spacer rebuttal is denied (Bills post)
You mention they use regrind and therefore not virgin vinyl ( I said jury still out on virgin. You agreed) Some on this site have stated that a vinyl can have upto 30% regrind and still be virgin. Are you stating that your window is 100% or does it contain maybe 15, 20% regrind and you still call it 100% in your brochure and manual or is it also 30% and you only use that statement to scare customers away from competitors.
The objective of a good sales person is to sell and if they dont buy from you make them feel as if they bought an inferior product from someone else because they couldnt afford the best.
I bet you use subs to for installs. How many times have I been asked to lie and say I only work for X when I also work for Y and Z. Subs are also contractors and I hate the way sales people demean them. Most know a heck of alot more about this business than you or I about how the job should be done and not the infernal "the salesman said" we all hate to hear. (alot of times the salesman will say anything to get their 10,15%)
I have said many times if you are any good you would not work for $10 per hour if you are worth $50.(if you do there is some thing wrong) Most guys know they are only as good as their last job and will do their best every time.The only guy SOL on a bad job is a sub because 2 people are gonna have his butt.
Your warranty analogys with the mentions of hurricanes is very upto date with the fears of the nation (never seen a hurricane in the midwest) But I am sure it works on some customers.
I'd like to see you warranty windows in a home that doesnt exist because they didnt have FEMA flood insurance(thats the cause of most denials sorry to say) Someone really should do something about that but my opinion is George wont it will cost some of his friends to much money.
You never once mentioned what you could offer this customer for $4200
which is within their budget (snap judgement I dont know them) can you offer them a better window for the $4200 with a better warranty or only as sales often says it a better value for the $ The same or slightly better? product for twice as much (Hard sell whats for dinner I aint leavin till they sign $1000 of their money is all mine sign sign sign)
You could tell me your window will last 30 years I will telll you it might but you should see some of the state of the art cutting edge stuff from the 80s I pull out and throw away (replacements) That sold for $600 to $1000 back then. Something better always comes along.
Butt heads Heck yes I will always be on the customers side. I did my share of covering for over priced home improvements in the past and I am done with it. Just because you pay more doesnt mean you got the best maybe you just got talked into it.


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