Serious Materials Quantum2 windows v. Simonton 9800

I am not a forum poster-type and am totally new to this concept. I am a big lurker, however. I hope this goes through.

Anyway, I am considering Serious Materials Quantum2 windows and the specs put out by the company on their website seem too good to be true.

U-value 0.10
R-value 10
SHGC .33
Visible transmission Ultraviolet light 0.57%
Blockage 99.7%

I don't see anything about NFRC & AAMA testing on the webpage. Can these numbers be trusted? I don't see alot of comments about this brand of windows, especially after they were taken over by Serious Materials. Can anyone on this site offer an opinion? And I haven't been able to find these kinds of specs for the Simonton 9800 windows. Thanks for your help.

The U-factor is obviously the center of glass or frame, not the entire unit. The SHGC if that is correct, will not allow the unit to qualify for the tax credit. VT and UV resistence are probably correct.

Structural data on the 9800
http://www.simonton.com/TopMenu/Trade/StructuralData.pdf?i=92

Thermal data on the 9800
http://www.simonton.com/TopMenu/Trade/ThermalData.pdf?i=92&g=1

Why is Serious doing all this COG stuff if they are supposed to be leading the way?

The overall U-factor on the 9800 with triple pane glass filled with krypton gas is around .21 although that can vary depending on window size, style and options.

Seems like a little bit of the old skool smoke and mirrors has returned.

Anyone remember the old literature piece that Great Lakes put out that showed their tested air infiltration number at 0.00? They were sued in court to provide a copy of the test results and in the details of the section, it stated that the perimeters of the sashes had been caulked!

The more things change, the more they stay the same...

They have to mislead consumers in order to justify the high prices they charge. Would anyone really pay $200-$300 more per window if they realized it was only going to save them $50. more per year in energy savings?

The pitch goes like this:

"Those other windows only have an R-value of 3.33. Look it's right here on the brochure. Ours have an R-value of 10. See, it's right here on our brochure. So our windows are 3 times more energy efficient and will reduce your energy bills 3 times more than those other windows. Sign right here. This price is only good for today."

Unfortunately unsuspecting consumers get fooled by this kind of, shall we say, "playing loose with the numbers" every day.

To echo what Sky said, the difference in the performance numbers comes in HOW the windows are tested. It's like a car, it will show a different horsepower rating if you test it at the engine or at the rear wheels.

Windows will have higher center of glass (COG) ratings than they will overall unit ratings. Simonton gives overall unit ratings (which is the industry standard based on NFRC criteria).

Don't trust the smoke and mirrors, go with an honest, reliable, stable company.

Ok so with all the experts before I begin I DO NOT work for Serious Materials.
As far as their Quantum2 window goes their overall U-value of the entire unit goes from a .16 on a picture window to a .18 on casements and .19 on double hungs. I will tell you they have a very attractive well performing window and the Manufacturers Service dept. is Top Shelf. As far as Skydawggy's comment it is not a fair or true statement. IMHO

Now before anyone starts yelling I do own a NJ company and one of our lines is Serious Quantum2 so I am just here for facts and answers that are accurate no posts of my website or schilling for my company or anyone else's I will just say that I am a Very Informed Owner and understand the smoke and mirrors that most companies use and I won't have it.

Fire away with any questions and I promise all answers will always be fact!

Since I made several comments, please clarify which one isn't true or is unfair.

What are the VT and SHGC numbers on that double hung? Do you know the air numbers off hand too? Just trying to get a feel for that window.

Do you have any cut away images?

Also, I am not sure where Sky said anything unfair or untrue. He was merely challenging the fact that the original poster had been presented with misleading information. Anybody that quotes COG numbers is trying to fool the customer.

Or he's commenting on my mock sales pitch. You and I know who the local Q2 dealer is and I'm sure you will verify I am spot on in my assessment. In fact the local Q2 Dealer starts out with a price of $1500 per window and then goes down from there.