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 Post subject: Pricing Strategy and Negotiation
PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 4:37 am 

Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:00 am
Posts: 32
Location: Central US
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I'm in the process of getting quotes for 7 "normal size/shape" windows in my home (3 DH and 4 slider). I'm concentrating on double-pane, low-e, argon filled for now, because I want efficiency, but my area is not extremely cold or hot (though a bit more hot than cold). Quotes:

Sears: Simonton (5500?) $6000
Local Contractor:
Great Lakes Seabroke: $5412
Great Lakes Uniframe: $6221

I'm fairly knowledgable about pricing, so I know both of these quotes are almost a joke. The local contractor "manager" is coming back to offer a lower price "without commission" on the lower end Great Lakes Bayshore windows, so we'll see on that. I've also got a Sucho dealer coming out next week.

What is the best way to handle pricing negotiation? I'm not willing to pay inflated prices, and I know my max is about $500-600 per window. Should I just come out and say this if they quote another high price, or just let them give the high price, say no, and let them leave. And should I let them in on any good quotes I've gotten on equivalent windows, or just let them quote high again and let them leave unhappy. I honestly don't want to bring people out and spend an hour with them unless there is some chance of making a deal. Should I state my conditions/restrictions before scheduling them to come out in the first place?

I don't want to waste my time or the salesperson's time. I know what window brands and features to consider, and I just want a reasonable quote and some information on the installers and warranty, etc.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 11:44 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:10 pm
Posts: 225
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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First of all by telling the other salesman you have another price will bring the game on a bit. By telling them what windows your comparing will bring out the wolves. It's then up to you to know which one is better than the other. They will all claim dominance for their window. Since the Schuco window is at the upper realm of the food chain you can plan on that one being the top shelf. Bottom line is the Winter months bring sharper pencils because the jobs are fewer and farther between. The holidays has taken the money clip away from home improvements. So when all is said and done you way your options on what you feel your best window is. If they don't meet your pocketbook either find more money or tell the salesman here's my bottom line, "Take It, Or Leave It". The ball is then in their court. If they want the sale they'll play ball!! Good Luck!!!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 3:17 am 

Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:00 am
Posts: 32
Location: Central US
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Thanks for your reply, Guy. I'll post here about how things go this week. I (very nicely) warned both companies on the phone this week I was really wanting a good price upfront, and nothing pushy, or I'd have to decline. I kind of doubt it will help, but we'll see...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 5:04 pm 

Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 5:03 pm
Posts: 52
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eberry, exactly how big are your windows?? Who is your Schuco dealer that is coming to visit??


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 6:23 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:00 am
Posts: 32
Location: Central US
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I don't want to go into detail about the specific dealer, but this quote was from a Schuco dealer in the central US. For double-pane Krypton (Corona 4000 series) the quote averaged about $650 per window (DH a bit less, horizontal sliders a bit more), and I think this is reasonable but not an unbelievable deal (triple pane were about $65 more per window). I like the windows, but my budget was really closer to $575 max, so I'm not sure I want to go that high. The DH windows average about 80 inches (Height + Width) and the sliders about 115. The sales person was good and no pressure, which I appreciate. They are definitely ahead of Sears and the others so far in that department.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 7:26 pm 

Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 5:03 pm
Posts: 52
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if you could get those 7 installed in schuco triple glass I would do it for 5k maybe you can squeeze them for a little less but of all the product you mentioned, the value for your money seems best with schuco.

Good Luck


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 10:11 pm 

Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 9:22 pm
Posts: 301
Location: Peoria, IL
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575 is your limit?? So you're paying cash??


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 10:27 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:00 am
Posts: 32
Location: Central US
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$575 per window was my upper target going into this, and I'd like to stick to that unless I see tremendous differences in efficiency just above that price. So far, I don't really see it, though, for a house I might only be living in for a few years - $575 can buy an awfuly good window for a moderate climate like mine. I do plan to pay either in cash or by the and of a short "no payments no interest credit" delay (i.e, pay no the 185th day of 190 days, etc.). The main reason I prefer not to pay over several years is personal preference, not anything financial.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 2:38 am 

Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:00 am
Posts: 32
Location: Central US
Offline
Hmmm, I looked today, and my Schuco dealer recently had their BBB license revoked. I think I'm back to the drawing board...

Surprisingly, on the other hand, the local Window World has a 3-year completely clean record! Maybe part of this is because people choosing less expensive windows expect a little less, but still, I was a bit surprised when I finally looked...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 8:51 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2005 9:53 am
Posts: 37
Location: Massachussetts
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I don't think you can be kicked out of the BBB, and there is no license.
The BBB is a membership that is voluntary (at least here in Massachusetts).
You pay annual dues which vary based on the # of employees you have.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 9:11 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:00 am
Posts: 32
Location: Central US
Offline
A BBB membership can be revoked in my state (here is what my BBB says about my local dealer):

Based on BBB files, this company has an unsatisfactory record with the Bureau due to unresolved complaint(s).

On September 9, 2005, this company's membership in the BBB was revoked by the BBB's Board of Directors due to failure of the company to eliminate the underlying cause of complaints on file with the BBB...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 7:54 am 

Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2005 9:53 am
Posts: 37
Location: Massachussetts
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wow, I have been in the business for 20 years and I have never heard of a company being booted by the BBB!
You learn something new every day....thanks.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 12:06 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:00 am
Posts: 32
Location: Central US
Offline
This is especially sad to me because I loved the Schuco windows the company was offering, the price was reasonable, and I liked the salesman fairly well in addition. According to the BBB, they were regularly involved in misleading pricing games and rebates that never paid back as promised.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 11:24 pm 

Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 9:22 pm
Posts: 301
Location: Peoria, IL
Offline
So, just because they aren't in the BBB, you can't buy their windows?? if the price was right, and you liked the windows, then get them.

Seriously eberry. I appreciate someone's passion, I get that way too, but you carry the torch for the dumbest things I can imagine. Like the post on caulk. IT'S CAULK!!! It doesn't need a dissertation. BBB doesn't mean they can't do business, and btw, MOST, not all, but MOST of Schuco's dealers are ridiculous, and that whole pricing strategy thing, well, I'll bet 99.9999999 of all the companies out there are guilty of that.
BTW, window world sells garbage, and they have plenty of complaints too. You just turned down a rolls royce because the floor at the shop needs sweeping. WHO CARES!????
So now you'll go buy a Chevette instead??

I'll tell you one thing; 650 for a Schuco window is pretty damn good, since the local dealer here has a list price of nearly 1700 bucks for a triple pane double hung, smallest size. Of course, in the world of tinman tactics, they rule the roost.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 12:24 am 

Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:00 am
Posts: 32
Location: Central US
Offline
It isn't just that they are not a member of the BBB - the board of directors of the BBB terminated their membership for continued poor treatment of customers and being involved with a rebate scam that finally resulted in a state attorney general getting involved in a lawsuit. How exactly is looking for an ethical window dealer carrying some sort of torch? There are other great windows available to me that come from more customer-concerned dealers (Simonton, Sunrise, Marvin, Great Lakes, Gorell, etc.).

Your floor sweeping analogy is way off the mark - the salesperson didn't show up with a dirty window or shirt. Instead, his employer says things will cost one price with a rebate coming later, but the rebates consistently never materialize, according to the BBB and other news reports I've seen. This is dishonesty, not uncleanliness.

I never said the entire Window World chain was great, only that my local dealer has no logged complaints in the last 3 years after installing several thousand windows. Window World can order any window in the Alside line as well as windows from 3 other manufacturers (with super spacers, triple pane, krypton, u as low as .18 for DH, upgraded warranty, etc.). If you are calling the whole Alside window line garbage, please post the reasons why their Sheffield window with a super spacer option, for example, is garbage. I clearly stated I believe the Schuco window was great, the Window World windows are cheaper windows, and never said I was buying form Window World, so why jump on me like you have?

I posted at length about my ideas on insulation techniques, but only a few sentences mentioned caulk, so I'm not sure what you are upset about. I don't see any reason we shouldn't discuss proper installation and sealing of a window frame here (even in great detail). This is much more important than some of what is discussed here, given the results of sub-par installation techniques. I sympathize, though, since I too regularly see messages here I'm not that interested in reading, but I realize that is part of being involved with public community that I need to deal with.

If you believe I am posting incorrect or misleading facts, I encourage you and everyone to correct me, but please don't encourage buyers to buy from unethical dealers and jump on posters for sharing their thoughts and experiences.


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