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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 10:21 am 

Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 9:22 pm
Posts: 301
Location: Peoria, IL
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Well, if I'm the one who's off the mark then it's me who's apologizing, but the point I was making is that damn near every company out there uses some kind of stupid claims or scams to try to get you to buy their products. Schuco dealers, in general, just sem to get the most attention, but then they consistently over sell their windows, have dealers who use extreme high pressure tactics (which you need if you're going to price your windows that high), and people are getting sick of it, I guess. Even our beloved guru on here has admonished Schuco for using these dealers to sell their windows. I guess it fit in with stereo-typical european arrogance.
In any light, dude,. you are constantly being corrected for things you post on here. It's like you hear, see or read something, then post it here like you some knowledgeable window expert, get corrected, backpedal and apologize, then post something a little low key. Y originally came on here as a homeowner looking for advice and now you're trying to give it. There are guys who do this for a living, and some who have done it for many many years. Leave the technical facts to them.
My point about the caulk was that it's caulk, Yes, it needs to be checked, occasionally, or updated or whatever. It's CAULK!! Who cares?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 10:25 am 

Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 9:22 pm
Posts: 301
Location: Peoria, IL
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BTW, I've seen some Alside models, not all of them, but I seriously was not impressed. I thought they looked like junk, to be honest.
Sorry....


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 11:36 am 

Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2006 10:54 am
Posts: 19
Location: Albany, NY
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Mass. window guy wrote:
wow, I have been in the business for 20 years and I have never heard of a company being booted by the BBB!
You learn something new every day....thanks.


REALITY CHECK -

THERE ARE MANY COMPANIES BOOTED BY THE BBB - AND MANY MORE in the line of the attorney generals offices..

WAAAAAAAAAAAAY FAR TOO MANY CASES TO COUNT MY FRIEND.

Ck


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 11:38 am 

Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2006 10:54 am
Posts: 19
Location: Albany, NY
Offline
eberry wrote:
It isn't just that they are not a member of the BBB - the board of directors of the BBB terminated their membership for continued poor treatment of customers and being involved with a rebate scam that finally resulted in a state attorney general getting involved in a lawsuit. How exactly is looking for an ethical window dealer carrying some sort of torch? There are other great windows available to me that come from more customer-concerned dealers (Simonton, Sunrise, Marvin, Great Lakes, Gorell, etc.).

Your floor sweeping analogy is way off the mark - the salesperson didn't show up with a dirty window or shirt. Instead, his employer says things will cost one price with a rebate coming later, but the rebates consistently never materialize, according to the BBB and other news reports I've seen. This is dishonesty, not uncleanliness.

I never said the entire Window World chain was great, only that my local dealer has no logged complaints in the last 3 years after installing several thousand windows. Window World can order any window in the Alside line as well as windows from 3 other manufacturers (with super spacers, triple pane, krypton, u as low as .18 for DH, upgraded warranty, etc.). If you are calling the whole Alside window line garbage, please post the reasons why their Sheffield window with a super spacer option, for example, is garbage. I clearly stated I believe the Schuco window was great, the Window World windows are cheaper windows, and never said I was buying form Window World, so why jump on me like you have?

I posted at length about my ideas on insulation techniques, but only a few sentences mentioned caulk, so I'm not sure what you are upset about. I don't see any reason we shouldn't discuss proper installation and sealing of a window frame here (even in great detail). This is much more important than some of what is discussed here, given the results of sub-par installation techniques. I sympathize, though, since I too regularly see messages here I'm not that interested in reading, but I realize that is part of being involved with public community that I need to deal with.

If you believe I am posting incorrect or misleading facts, I encourage you and everyone to correct me, but please don't encourage buyers to buy from unethical dealers and jump on posters for sharing their thoughts and experiences.


RIGH ON!!

Ck


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 Post subject: Re: Pricing Strategy and Negotiation
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 12:17 pm 

Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2006 10:54 am
Posts: 19
Location: Albany, NY
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eberry wrote:
I'm in the process of getting quotes for 7 "normal size/shape" windows in my home (3 DH and 4 slider). I'm concentrating on double-pane, low-e, argon filled for now, because I want efficiency, but my area is not extremely cold or hot (though a bit more hot than cold). Quotes:

Sears: Simonton (5500?) $6000
Local Contractor:
Great Lakes Seabroke: $5412
Great Lakes Uniframe: $6221

I'm fairly knowledgable about pricing, so I know both of these quotes are almost a joke. The local contractor "manager" is coming back to offer a lower price "without commission" on the lower end Great Lakes Bayshore windows, so we'll see on that. I've also got a Sucho dealer coming out next week.

What is the best way to handle pricing negotiation? I'm not willing to pay inflated prices, and I know my max is about $500-600 per window. Should I just come out and say this if they quote another high price, or just let them give the high price, say no, and let them leave. And should I let them in on any good quotes I've gotten on equivalent windows, or just let them quote high again and let them leave unhappy. I honestly don't want to bring people out and spend an hour with them unless there is some chance of making a deal. Should I state my conditions/restrictions before scheduling them to come out in the first place?

I don't want to waste my time or the salesperson's time. I know what window brands and features to consider, and I just want a reasonable quote and some information on the installers and warranty, etc.



%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

As a sales consultant in this industry I appreciate your respect for not wasting anyone’s time.

I kind of had to chuck when I read “the sales manager is coming back to offer a price without commissionâ€


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 1:17 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:00 am
Posts: 32
Location: Central US
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thd, I appreciate your comments, and I am always happy to see salespeople who are striving to be honest and provide the customer information and value, not hot air. I do think you were a little hard on Mass. window guy, though. I'm sure BBB practices differ by state quite a bit, as he said.

HipKat, I agree with you the lower end Alside models did not look or operate all that well, and the NFRC numbers are a bit below my target. The upper end looks like good windows, though.

I am not a window expert, but I'm not a complete novice in this field. I worked for 6 years in materials design and construction (including heat conduction and aerodynamics). We all make mistakes (as I see you recently posted that Vinyl doesn't expand over temperature changes). I do feel I posted one misleading and uncorrected thing, though, and I'm going to go post a correction in that thread now - thanks for the reminder. I do agree that I should change my tone here, and offer advice only about things I'm more certain about, and I will try to do that from here out.


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