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 Post subject: Problems with Simonton?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 12:31 pm 

Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 12:02 pm
Posts: 3
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Our house is two years old and from day one we have had a problem with our Simonton windows. Air is blowing up the side tracks and into the house! This is not normal and is raising our heating bill every winter!!! The Simonton Rep has inspected them and says they weren't installed properly. Our builder says he uses these windows in all his homes and never had a complaint before us and they are installed right. What do we do? Has anyone else had a problem with Simonton? Any suggestions or thoughts? We have had it with these windows and noone wanting to take responsibility. We don't care who is at fault, just fix it!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 6:07 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:10 pm
Posts: 222
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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I like the Bluegrass name, it's my favorite music!!! So I had to post!

I've installed my share of Simonton windows. One thing I never had was air infiltration through the unit. I can almost bet the house that it's some where related to the installation. If your contractor is stating your the only one complaining. I would tell him your probably the only one who's really looked. Find some of his other homes and take a look at them. Tell him to have them repaired or you'll hire someone else to do it at his expense. If another company finds the installation was negligent he foots the bill. Another good way to tell is by an Energy Analysis of your shell. THis will point it out like a flaming arrow!! The negligent one will have no recourse than to fix them. Just don't sit back and wait. Keep the pressure on or seek legal council. It gets their attention when they get that legal letter in the mail. Good luck!!!


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 Post subject: Thanks
PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2006 9:56 pm 

Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 12:02 pm
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Hi Guy - Thank you for your comments and suggestions! We were hoping to get an opinion from an outsider like yourself that has nothing to gain from your comments. Our locals would be ready and willing to replace them.

You mentioned doing an energy analysis. Who does this? Our electric company?

Curious, we recently removed the trim around one of the windows to see if they insulated around the inner frame. We could see no insulation and air was blowing through the crack between the drywall and window and up the window track. Do you think this could be our culprit?
Would it be obvious if there was insulation and isn't there supposed to be some there?

Your input is invaluable to us - thank you!!!!

Feeling better in the bluegrass!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 3:08 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:10 pm
Posts: 222
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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I'd get your installer back right away. I'd then show them what you've uncovered. This is very important to have insulated. There are a lot of short cuts caught right there. It's most definitely your culprit and needs attention. Take some pictures and really stand watch over them during repairs. If they took the easy way out ounce it could be done again. I'd even request other installers to make the repairs.

Energy audits can be done by your energy provider or you can go to RESNET and type in your zip code. I'll attach the site

http://www.natresnet.org/directory/rater_directory.asp


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 Post subject: reply
PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 5:50 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:43 pm
Posts: 353
Location: Illinois
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Good catch and quite possibly a relatively simple solution. The tough part might be convincing your contractor to come back and do it properly. You might end up pulling the casings and taking care of it yourself which wouldn't be the end of the world either.

There are many weaknesses in the construction industry, and homeowners are not as protected as they would assume. I'll post a new thread to share a bit more on this topic.

Oh, and Guy is correct that some utility providers will help with energy audits... some charge... some don't. It's important to keep in mind that all auditors are not equally trained and do not all perform the same testing procedures. Many of the free audits are not performed by certified raters or auditors. Guy's recommendation of searching RESNET's site is the way to go.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 9:45 pm 

Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 2:25 am
Posts: 155
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If RESNET does not have a local contractor (not within 2 hours, at least), are there other places to look for good home energy consultants?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 9:58 am 

Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2005 9:53 am
Posts: 37
Location: Massachussetts
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Most contractors will insulate between the buckframe and new window which is accesible when removing the inside stops- it could be air coming between the rough opening and buckframe which is NOT accesible unless the casings are completely pulled off.
If this is the case, it would be neither the installer or manufacturers fault.
To put it in laymans terms, your house probably has a rough opening which is where the house frame stops. The prime or new construction windows are slightly smaller than this "rough opening". It is crucial to "chink" or lightly fill this space with insulation. This area is then covered with the window casing.
When a "replacement window" is being used, the "guts" of the window are removed- the old window frame is left alone. The replacement window then needs to be made "slightly smaller" just like the "prime window". If both of those pockets are not properly insulated, it will result in a drafty window.
But again, not many contractors will pull off the casing and insulate that area unless it is a special circumstance.
Please let us know how you make out.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 10:34 am 

Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2005 10:11 am
Posts: 428
Location: New Jersey
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Mass Window Guy:

Take a look at the original post it was a new construction application the house is 2 years old what you wrote applies to a replacement job. The homeowner needs to call back the builder it appears they did not insulate the gap between the RO and the window.

Bill
Uneeda Window


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 9:11 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:10 pm
Posts: 222
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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No disrespect to anyone here. I've never installed any kind of window that can't be insulated from one side or the other. This is a must when it comes to either application. If you have to insulate from the outside or even before you install the unit, it must be done!! If it can't be something is wrong! It's all on the shoulders of the person doing the measurements of the replacement unit or the carpenter roughing the opening. Either way some one has to answer for a poor installation.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 1:13 pm 

Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 3:57 pm
Posts: 80
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When madinbluegrass says that "air is blowing up the sidetracks", what I'm picturing is a doublehung that has air coming up the extrusion, past the pivot shoes and up into the home near the tilt latches. (if this is even a tilt-double hung we're talking about.)

That's often an indication that the window is installed out of square. If the window is raised and then lowered until it "almost" meets the frame, you will see a narrow slit of light underneath the sash. If that slit of light is straight, the window is usually square, and if it is, it should be engaging the weatherstrips properly. Windows that have bulb seals on the bottom could be checked to ensure that the factory didn't cut the bulbs too short. To measure the window frame for square, just measure the frame from corner to corner, diagonally. The measurements should be exactly the same.

The width of the window could also be checked at the top, middle and bottom of the frame (both inside and out) to see if the window frame is spread, which would also create a draft which would be worst at the middle of the window near the meeting rail.

Some window companies place small foam pads at the bottom of the sash ends, which supposedly is supposed to help stop air from "channelling" up the sides of the window.


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 Post subject: Reply
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 10:45 pm 

Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 12:02 pm
Posts: 3
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Boy, did I find the right site to get some help with this!!!! You guys are full of information. Thank you so much for your input.

I forgot to put two things in my original posting 1) this winter our windows are started to howl when the wind is blows and 2) we still have condensation at the bottom of the windows/ top and bottom window. The howling is causing some sleepless nights and our 7 month old doesn't like it either. Does this raise any other final red flags?

I read some other postings about condensation being related to low insulation in the wall. Please don't tell me I have another problem.

I am calling our builder tomorrow and TRY to get him out here again to convince him we have PROBLEMS!!! Keep your fingers crossed. I'll let you know how it goes.


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