Polaris UltraWeld

Thought I would start new thread on my window questions as opposed to keeping older ones open.

I am 99% sure I am getting these next Thursday, when install company comes out. Didn't seem as bulky looking at them in showroom as in brochure.

Can't find much rating info on the window. Remember reading a post or two awhile back and can't find them. Website doesn't say much either.

Seems they have options up from the base UltraWeld.

I saw the main chamber is foam filled as opposed to all chambers I guess. Is that sufficient?

Seems base line has no argon gas--do I need that?

Any link to their ratings as it pertains to which options you get. R/U Factors. AI etc. Can ask Seller, but would like to see in print.

I had looked at Sunrise UltraU 5500.00 for about 110sf of window. 4 dh and 2 sliders, nice size. Want to make sure what options I need to be apple to apple. I believe SR is all foam filled and has argon gas and an AI of .04. Sunrise does have the sleeker look. If Polaris is as good and I know which options are REALLY needed, I would prefer the Polaris company to install.

Didn't even see a phone number or email for Polaris on their website.

Thanks for any links or info/guidance


Ken

Finally found phone number and they are emailing me thermal and structural info.

Apparently baseline has no foam in chambers and windows do have argon gas. Polaris says 99% of their windows ship that way. I will make sure I get argon, but wonder if foam is needed.


Ken

Not sure how readable these are?

Gee--I guess I answered most of my questions--

Last one on importance of foam filled chambers or lack of--

I don't know the price difference yet, or if it is worth the money

Depends ultimately on what the cost of the upgrade is.

In some windows it can make a thermal difference of some magnitude (i.e. 0.02 - 0.03 U-Factor points). In others, it makes very little if any difference.

Check the U-factor specs and see what the over all improvement is and what the cost is.

Example, if it is $20 for foam and it drops the U-factor 0.02 points, I think it is worthwhile investment.

Thanks WOW

I'll ask the seller and then check with Polaris if they have that info

Ken

Polaris says foam in chambers will impact R not U value and they don't add it because of increased cost and minimal improvement. They don't test for it.

It won't affect my decision if pricing is better then Sunrise--

It improves u-factor 1 point. .30 to a .29 . They are in the process of new nfrc testing and the new ( better) results will be reflected on new nfrc stickers I January.

Thanks ranger--I haven't been able to find that--is there a link

And at .01 difference, what would be a fair price to pay per window to get any real savings per cost. I thought I read somewhere that every .01 or something increased efficiency a certain %. Don't mind paying for a worth while return on investment.

I also think Polaris will charge high for it if they ship 99% of their windows without it.

Does that make Sunrise a MUCH better window, or am I over analyzing?

I still like the Polaris dealer here and their CS is better than SR IMHO. But, if price is close I should get better window, if I am spending 5K on 6 windows at 110sf of window. Sunrise does have a thinner frame for view.

I did ask why a quality company like Polaris did not put the foam in a good window--no answer.


Ken

The answer is that foam isn't going to benefit you one bit. It wasn't that long ago that nearly every Pro on this site agreed that the main reason manufacturers put foam in windows was simply to differentiate themmselves from their competitors. We used to say the reason foam was put in was mainly to sell windows for salespeople with sales skills that were lacking. Now that more and more manufacturers are using foam, the wisdom is that it's necessary and somehow a window with foam performs better than one without.

I challenge anyone to tell me exactly how much savings a consumer can expect from a difference of .01 in U-factors between 2 windows when everything else such as air infiltration and Performance Grade are identical.

Bottom line is if you can buy a window from a manufacturer with a good reputation, get a high quality installation and the only difference is a .01 U-factor but a lower price, in most cases you be ill advised to purchase the higher priced window.

Here's a website you need to spend some time on.

http://www.efficientwindows.org/

That's pretty much what the dealer said EcoStar. And, I agree .01 doesn't seem to be much compared to maybe 120 or more dollars in cost for 6 windows.

Not entirely true although I don't want to start a war with you.

Notice that I prefaced my comments to acknowledge that it has entirely to do with what the U-Factor improvement is vs. the cost of the upgrade.

In the case of a window that I sell, the outside chamber has a slight connection to the inside surface in that it only has one isolating chamber to thermally break that connection.

The addition of foam to that outside chamber drops the U-Factor by 0.03 points to an R-4 vs. R-3.6. That is a 12% increase in overall efficiency and worth the additional investment if it is reasonable.

I agree that a 0.01 drop is probably not a worthwhile investment unless it is pretty darn cheap upgrade.

In the UltraWeld brochure it shows a foam filled MAIN chamber, but that is all. If still true--I emailed them--then filling the rest of the chambers may be why only a .01 change and as mentioned not worth the price.

We aren't in disagreement at all. My point is that a drop in u-factor by .01 by adding foam is not significant enough to justify any additional cost. I'm offering my customers a free upgrade from double pane to triple pane/argon right now which drops the U-factor from .29 to .22 and part of the reason for that is that 3 chambers are foam filled instead of one. In this case with no additional cost, the homeowner would be ill advised not to go with the triple pane upgrade.

BTW, nice plug.

foam also adds some rigidity to the frame as well. as for u-factor, Sunrise which is a very good window as well foam fills the heck out of their window, without the foam their u-factor would be a .30 at best.