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 Post subject: Re: Seeking Replacement Windows in Madison, WI area
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 3:01 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 11:55 am
Posts: 31
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Wow, the Vista Window came in at the lowest bid so far!

$3101.93 for 5 windows (2 DH, 3 sliders)

This is for triple paned (1 argon, 1 krypton), full screens and has a u-factor of .19! Wow!

It has a sloping sill, but it does have that champion technique for getting rid of water with the sill extrusion, so not sure about that? Seems like a good price! This is from ClearChoice Windows ... any reputation on them on this board?

Cheers!


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 Post subject: Re: Seeking Replacement Windows in Madison, WI area
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 5:16 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 11:55 am
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Serious Windows came in at:
$3442 for the 300

$4044 for the 501 (which has the film in it)


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 Post subject: Re: Seeking Replacement Windows in Madison, WI area
PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 1:17 am 

Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 11:55 am
Posts: 31
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Well, started creating my spreadsheet of comparison.

Sears came back, lowered the price 20% and they are still the highest price, plus I can seem to confirm their products details on NFRC ... what they tell me doesn't match with anything ... ughh.

Anyway came up with 14 quotes all together so far. Still waiting to hear on a couple of them. Lowest was Clear Choice's vista, until they made a mistake, now the lowest goes to Champion again. Highest is Sears with RBA and a contractor's Hayfield outstanding.

These are the windows I'm looking at in order of price ... (ranges $3,323 to $5,462 for 5 windows with an average price of $3,971)
Champion
EnvironView (Excalibur 201)
Serious 300 (Double Pane Low-e Argon Gas)
Vista Triad-X Triple Pane
Okna 500 Deluxe Insultec with Energy Package
Gorrell Timeless Plus
Alside 8000
Okna 800 Deluxe Envirostar
Serious 501 (Double Pane with Suspended Film Low-e Krypton Gas)
Okna 500 Deluxe Insultec with Energy Package (3 panes - Argon)
Okna 800 Deluxe Envirostar (3 panes)
Weather Beater (Wincore)

... and I don't have a price on these 3 yet ...
Okna 500 Deluxe Insultec with Energy Package (3 panes - Krypton)
Andersen
Hayfield

Well, enough on windows ... I'm glad I'm in the home stretch now. Hopefully I can isolate all the NFRC and AAMA numbers on them.

Cheers,
-ks


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 Post subject: Re: Seeking Replacement Windows in Madison, WI area
PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 3:10 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 11:55 am
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Anyone have the CPD#'s for any of these windows handy? Trying to verify on the NFRC site ... I know some of them I would probably need more detail on ... but that's all I have to go on until I hear back from some of the salesmen.

I believe I'm ok on the Okna, Gorrell and Serious windows ... the others I just am having issues with.

Cheers,
-ks


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 Post subject: Re: Seeking Replacement Windows in Madison, WI area
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 11:17 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:21 pm
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Location: DC Metropolitan Area-Maryland/Virginia/DC
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all without grids....

Okna 500 Deluxe double pane: OKW-K-18-00015-00001
Okna 500 Deluxe triple pane (argon): OKW-K-18-00016-00001
Okna 500 Deluxe triple pane (krypton): OKW-K-18-00017-00001

Okna 800 Deluxe double pane: OKW-K-23-00018-00001
Okna 800 Deluxe triple pane (argon): OKW-K-23-00019-00001

There is not CPD# for the Okna 800 Deluxe with triple pane (krypton) but it would stand to reason that it would be similar to the relationship between the Okna 500 Deluxe with triple pane (krypton) comparison (i.e. U-Factor = 0.16)


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 Post subject: Re: Seeking Replacement Windows in Madison, WI area
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:28 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 11:55 am
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Thanks WoW! You've been most helpful.

I've since trimmed my list down to 10 windows now from the original list above. Still waiting on 1 quote and feedback for 3 CPD#'s. Here is my updated list in price order:
*Champion
*EnvironView (Excalibur 201) (need CPD# - but won't hold by breath for long)
*Vista Triad-X Triple Pane (need CPD# - holding my breath for this one, it's allegedly .19 u-Factor! This would be the cheapest window with a .19 by over $500!)
*Okna 500 Deluxe Insultec with Energy Package
*Okna 800 Deluxe Envirostar
*Serious 501 Serious 8 Glass (Film + Krypton)
*Okna 500 Deluxe Insultec with Energy Package (3 panes - Argon)
*Okna 800 Deluxe Envirostar (3 panes)
*Okna 500 Deluxe Insultec with Energy Package (3 panes - Krypton)

Need quote yet ... if it's high I'll probably drop this one:
*Andersen (also need CPD#)

Cheers,
-ks


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 Post subject: Re: Seeking Replacement Windows in Madison, WI area
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:39 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 11:55 am
Posts: 31
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WoW,

Do you have the CPD#'s for the Sliders for Okna? I don't have any of them?


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 Post subject: Re: Seeking Replacement Windows in Madison, WI area
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 6:37 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 11:55 am
Posts: 31
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For anyone out there wanting to know the CPD# for EnviroView they are:

CPD for double hung is #ALS-A-11-00816-00001
CPD for Slider window is #ALS-A-42-00474-00001

Also, Champion should be easy to figure out as there aren't too many of them for anyone looking them up.

Cheers,
-ks


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 Post subject: Re: Seeking Replacement Windows in Madison, WI area
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 7:10 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 11:55 am
Posts: 31
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I've ranked price, and what I know of u-factors, sghc and price. I'm still waiting to get the CPD# for the Vista window, otherwise I'm down to the following:
Vista Triad-X Triple Pane
Okna 500 Deluxe Insultec with Energy Package (3 panes - Krypton)
Serious 501 Serious 8 Glass (Film + Krypton)
Okna 500 Deluxe Insultec with Energy Package (3 panes - Argon)
Okna 500 Deluxe Insultec with Energy Package
Okna 800 Deluxe Envirostar (3 panes)
Okna 800 Deluxe Envirostar

I don't know how others do it ... but my ranking is 1 for the lowest price and added 1 to the rank for every $200 above that. 1 for the lowest u-factor and 1 to the rank for every .01 above that. 1 for the highest SHGC and 1 to the rank for every .02 below that. The lowest combined ranking is the Vista so far, but need to know more about that.

Can you tell I'm into analysis?! LOL


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 Post subject: Re: Seeking Replacement Windows in Madison, WI area
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 7:47 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 11:55 am
Posts: 31
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Changed my criteria to price/$100, but kept the other factors. Removed another one, so now my rankings are:

Vista Triad-X Triple Pane (NOTE: Still waiting on information on this one)
Serious 501 Serious 8 Glass (Film + Krypton)<- this is double paned
Okna 500 Deluxe Insultec with Energy Package (3 panes - Argon)
Okna 500 Deluxe Insultec with Energy Package
Okna 500 Deluxe Insultec with Energy Package (3 panes - Krypton)
Okna 800 Deluxe Envirostar (3 panes)

The Serious Window has a CPD# of SER-M-62-00004-00001
and SER-M-59-00005-00001

Depending what I learn on the Vista ... the Serious Window might actually beat out the Okna with my rankings. It's hard to know how to rank price with the various levels of quality?! The film on the serious window is an advantage in that it makes the window lighter but gives it ratings comparable to a triple paned window ... however I'm not sure of the longevity factor on film?! Any ideas out there?


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 Post subject: Re: Seeking Replacement Windows in Madison, WI area
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:37 pm 

Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:40 am
Posts: 12
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Where does installation,warranty,spacer system,type of balance,air infiltration,length of time manufacturer has been in business,etc...fit into your analysis?


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 Post subject: Re: Seeking Replacement Windows in Madison, WI area
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:22 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 11:55 am
Posts: 31
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Good question Ellwood. Since I had 15 quotes, I did a high level sweep ... however I'm now down to 5 quotes and I think I will need to do that to feel more comfortable with my decision. I'm now down to:

Rank# Window
45.3 Vista Triad-X Triple Pane
48.4 Serious 501 Serious 8 Glass (Film + Krypton)
49.2 Okna 500 Deluxe Insultec with Energy Package (3 panes - Argon)
49.3 Okna 500 Deluxe Insultec with Energy Package
51.5 Okna 500 Deluxe Insultec with Energy Package (3 panes - Krypton)

Installation between different groups is hard to put metrics too. There is no third party that ranks people's installation (at least as far as I'm aware of), so unfortunately I think I'm going to have to pass on that criteria unless I learn something horrible about the final 3 vendors. You know ... that would be an AWESOME tool for the consumer ... some organization that LEGITIMATELY rates installers! The BBB seems like you just pay $480 and you are a A+ rating, Angie's list can be helpful if you have a subscription ... but sometimes the companies you look at don't have a rating there ... this is just a tough one to nail down.

At this point I believe all 3 vendors are offering lifetime warranties ... I will have to revisit my information just to make sure. That is a valid point!

As for spacer system, type of balance, etc ... I'm not sure I know enough of the difference to differentiate on those points?! Sounds like the Serious windows have a pretty good spacer system, not sure about Okna or Vista, but I imagine there is a whole world there to explore if I want. I feel like I'm come a long way since my first post ... but obviously I'm not the expert, I'm just trying to define things as best I can. I didn't want to focus completely on price, but also didn't want to focus completely on quality either ... so this is what I've come up with so far. Maybe tomorrow I'll have it moved around again with what you and I have discussed Ellwood.

As for Air Infiltration, that I DO think I will put into the equation, also I think I'll put in Design pressure, and perhaps condensation resistance too (which is the reason I need new windows). The problem is figuring out what "weight" to give these compared to what I've done above?!

Length of time manufacturer has been in business hadn't occurred to me. I may do that as well, thanks for the suggestion.

Cheers,
-ks


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 Post subject: Re: Seeking Replacement Windows in Madison, WI area
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:48 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 11:55 am
Posts: 31
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OK, actually did DP and AI on the windows and factored it ... the one I don't know I just put as the worst ... so here is what I have now considering those factors (Price, u-factor, SHGC, AI and DP):

Rank Window
50.4 Serious 501 Serious 8 Glass (2 panes + 1 Film + Krypton)
51.3 Vista Triad-X Triple Pane (still holding on the details of this one)
53.2 Okna 500 Deluxe Insultec with Energy Package (3 panes - Argon)
53.3 Okna 500 Deluxe Insultec with Energy Package
55.5 Okna 500 Deluxe Insultec with Energy Package (3 panes - Krypton)

Cheers,
-ks


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 Post subject: Re: Seeking Replacement Windows in Madison, WI area
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 2:38 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 11:55 am
Posts: 31
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Did some research, looks like Okna's been around since 1994, Vista since 2000 (still waiting on them), and Serious around October 2005. Looks like they took over Republic Windows in April 2009 per their site. I heard somewhere along my journey here that Republic was the one with the film in the window and then they got bought out ... so that makes sense with Serious taking them over and now using the film.

Serious does seem new to the business, but there seems to be 2 takes on that ... 1 is that they are too new and see how things play out ... and another is that they are trying to revoluntionize the window industry with technology, etc ... and b/c of that would be a good bet?!

I don't know what to think or how to rate all that. I had a really good experience with the Okna salesman ... but also had a really good experience with the Serious salesman ... they both seem to be good installers and both have good reviews ... I'm not sure if I could go wrong either way? The value computations I've done so far would lean towards Serious ... anyone have any comments either way for me? Apparently the knock against serious in older posts was cost, but this time the cost is pretty good!


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 Post subject: Re: Seeking Replacement Windows in Madison, WI area
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 10:37 am 

Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 11:55 am
Posts: 31
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Upon suggestion I double checked the numbers on the Serious and although the 300 series numbers had been slightly off, the Serious 501 was right on.

At any rate, I ended up going with the Serious 501 double pane (and 1 layer of film) with Krypton. The windows numbers match up well against the Okna 500 triple pane argon, and I know this board is a fan of Okna, but the Serious window matches up in quality from what my research shows. Also the Serious window is cheaper, and finally the installer for the Serious window is very near by to where I live. I almost went with HomeSealed ... and really appreciated all his assistance in this. I would definitely recommend him to anyone else.

The Serious window guy has been very helpful as well so I would also recommend him too if anyone cares to know more. Between his business and HomeSealed I think I found 2 winners in the Window market. I did get some good information from the others I had quoting as well, but felt I learned the most from these 2 outside of my research on the internet. Good luck everyone on your "window shopping"!


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