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 Post subject: Air Leakage
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:02 pm 

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I've just installed replacement windows (Okna) in my 100yr old house and have noticed air leakage from between the wood molding. Is this to be expected to a certain degree, or a sign of inadequate insulation? How should this be corrected? Thanks. Attached is a photo.


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 Post subject: Re: Air Leakage
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:47 pm 
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Did you do the install, or did you hire someone? Based on your pic, I'm going to say that the leakage is not coming in through the window unit itself. It could be a poor install where the gap around the new window was not adequately sealed with low-expansion foam, or it could be coming in around the original frame. It is common (at least around here) for homes of that age to have 0 insulation in the walls.


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 Post subject: Re: Air Leakage
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:49 pm 
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To correct it, you will want to remove the interior casing and stops so that you can hit both of those gaps with foam. Then when you reinstall or replace the woodwork, caulk the interior since its painted anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: Air Leakage
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 4:09 pm 

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The first thing you should do is talk to the installer/contractor.
Can not tell for sure but the center could be bowed out, easy fix.
Is that top left master frame cracked?
It is very possible to air leakage around the wood of the install.
As HS has said the best way to fix it is to remove the interior casing and properly foam between the RO and frame, and the frame and the insert unit.


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 Post subject: Re: Air Leakage
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 4:24 pm 
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anthony wrote:
The first thing you should do is talk to the installer/contractor.

Agreed!
anthony wrote:
Is that top left master frame cracked?

I was thinking the same thing... Looks that way from the pic.


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 Post subject: Re: Air Leakage
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 4:32 pm 

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Thanks for your response. I did not install them myself. I asked the contractor to come by and have a look, but wanted to gather some information on my own. So would it typically be the responsibility of the contractor during installation to remove the interior casing, foam, and caulk if it seemed necessary? They did use foam during the installation, but maybe it didn't reach all of the areas. This isn't a problem with all of the windows.


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 Post subject: Re: Air Leakage
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 4:42 pm 
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seaforty wrote:
Thanks for your response. I did not install them myself. I asked the contractor to come by and have a look, but wanted to gather some information on my own. So would it typically be the responsibility of the contractor during installation to remove the interior casing, foam, and caulk if it seemed necessary? They did use foam during the installation, but maybe it didn't reach all of the areas. This isn't a problem with all of the windows.

No, unless it was specified, insulating or sealing around the original frame is not part of the scope of work for an insert style installation. If they did use foam, it is very possible that it is coming in around the frame, however, it is also possible that a spot was missed.


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 Post subject: Re: Air Leakage
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 5:31 pm 

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Okay, good to know. Thanks so much for the information.


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 Post subject: Re: Air Leakage
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 5:43 pm 
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What about what looks like a cracked frame in the pic? ... Is that just the picture, or is it actually cracked?


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 Post subject: Re: Air Leakage
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 6:28 pm 

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Not sure exactly which area you were talking about. The new vinyl window isn't cracked. There is a seam there with some caulk in that area, so it looks a little messy. The wooden part of the window frame/sill does have a big crack in it.


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 Post subject: Re: Air Leakage
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 7:10 pm 
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On img 3437 on your other post, if you look at the top, it appears as though the weld on the mainframe is cracked... It also looks like the sill dam is split away from the mainframe in the pic on this post.... If this is the case, it looks like these windows may have incurred some major abuse, but as I said, I don't know if it is just the pic giving an illusion.


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 Post subject: Re: Air Leakage
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 7:55 pm 

Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2007 1:19 pm
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Take a look at the picture I attached. Where exactly is the air coming in? (red arrow A or B)
The caulking job they did is bad I would not accept that from my guys. They also didn't caulk the existing molding as I stated in the picture. If the air is coming in from A they need to pull the molding and insulate better between the window and the existing frame and seal the molding with latex caulk. If its coming in from B which I highly doubt I did notice the top rail of the frame is cut a little short. I really don't see that being a problem with air infiltration.
Just looking at your picture its seems like they put the windows in from the outside. Its hard to tell by the picture if the interior molding was pulled. Usually you would see more paint cracked but yours (from what I can see) isnt cracked at the paint lines. If it was me I would have them pull the interior stop and insulate between the OKNA Frame and your existing frame. Also check if you can see light coming in at the meeting rails (look at the 2nd picture I posted) If you see light they have to adjust the side expanders.

Looking at your picture it looks like you got a bad installation. Any window installer that leaves a window looking like that on the inside probably doesn't care to much about his job. If you could post some pictures of the outside I would appreciate it.

Image

Image


Picture of the OKNA 500 Window

Image

Image

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Air Leakage
PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 12:30 am 

Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:50 pm
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Oh my gosh, thank you so much for the info and for the pictures. Extremely helpful. The air leak is coming from A, and yes, they did install from the outside. When this air leak issue was brought up, the installer stated that it was not in the contract to remove the interior casing...which technically is true I suppose. I guess I was interested in knowing what the general practice is...if this step would be done as needed to ensure optimal insulation. Also, it does seem like the side expanders might need to be adjusted because there are some gaps.

The installer is coming over in the morning, so I will see what he says. I can post a photo of the outside tomorrow if you are still interested in seeing it. Again, thank you very much for your response.


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 Post subject: Re: Air Leakage
PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:14 am 

Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2010 12:59 pm
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Removing the casing is not included during a " basic install" whether interior or exterior...needs to be stated in contract. There are adjusters that can tighten, align the windows. Looks like the 400 series were installed?


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 Post subject: Re: Air Leakage
PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:18 am 

Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2007 1:19 pm
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seaforty wrote:
When this air leak issue was brought up, the installer stated that it was not in the contract to remove the interior casing...which technically is true I suppose.


We usually don't remove the interior casing. We do however remove the interior stop as shown in the picture. If the interior stop is painted and is in good shape we try to do the install from the outside so we don't disturb the interior paint. If its stained we remove them and install from the inside. By the looks of your stop they can be removed and sealed without much damage.
The installer has two choices

1. Remove interior stop,Foam around window, Clean the caulking on the window and stop, Put stop back on, Seal stop with latex caulk

2. Remove outside capping, Foam around window, Re-Cap outside casing

I would still like to see some pictures of the outside.
Thanks


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