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 Post subject: Re: Quote on Alside Ultramaxx vs NT window
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:29 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:14 pm
Posts: 1859
Location: Milwaukee, Madison areas
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You keep mentioning this "engineering" thing, but I've not experienced any major problems with the alside casement, nor have I seen any evidence that this is a widespread problem. Alside is not regarded as a very good product by most, but it is not because there is some major, inherent design flaw with their casement windows. Your issue is caused by a product or installation failure.
So what you saying is that you had three window experts in a room, and not a single one could tell what the problem is?! ... Again, that just doesn't make sense. Something is warped, bent, broken, or malfunctioning. Regardless of assigning blame, how on earth could nobody be able to tell you what the problem is?
If I am understanding all of that correctly, what I would do is this: I would call another respected window company in your area and explain your situation. Ask them to come out and inspect/diagnose the issues with your windows ( you will have to pay them of course). Take those findings to your installer and alside and demand that it be corrected. If they are reluctant or still drag their feet, or whatever, then it is your choice whether to go the course of mediation through a trade group (like NARI or BBB), or if you want to take them right to court. You may considering consulting an attorney throughout this process as well to make sure that everything is documented properly.


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 Post subject: Re: Quote on Alside Ultramaxx vs NT window
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 5:31 pm 

Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2005 11:27 am
Posts: 830
Location: Texas - Houston & Austin
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Am I understanding correctly that the casement windows were left open and unlatched for three or four months straight?


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 Post subject: Re: Quote on Alside Ultramaxx vs NT window
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 8:02 pm 

Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:40 am
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An engineering study does not need to be done to determine that if any vinyl casement window is left open for that lenghth of time during the summer months the vent will bow and sag. They are not designed to be used in that manner. Four windows that were not left open, as you state, open and close properly. That should be some indication that leaving them open, even partially, had some effect on the windows.

I have personally seen casement windows that were installed in new construction applications during the summer and worked fine at the time of installation, but after having been left open during construction, would not close because of bowing and sagging. We were able to fix some by de-glazing and resetting the glass while the vents were closed and locked and allowing the back bedding to set up before the windows were opened again. Some were beyond repair and were replaced.


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 Post subject: Re: Quote on Alside Ultramaxx vs NT window
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:27 pm 

Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:41 am
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Are you saying that vinyl casement windows shouldn't really be opened? Have you seen this stated anywhere that you could reference in your reply?


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 Post subject: Re: Quote on Alside Ultramaxx vs NT window
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:39 pm 

Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2005 11:27 am
Posts: 830
Location: Texas - Houston & Austin
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There's a very big difference between opening and closing a window on a daily or at least regular basis, and leaving a casement window open for months at a time.

Did you leave your casements open and unlatched for three or four months straight?


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 Post subject: Re: Quote on Alside Ultramaxx vs NT window
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:00 pm 

Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:40 am
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No, not saying that they shouldn't be opened. But leaving them opened for that length of time, the weight of the glass and heat will cause them to sag or bow.

I have also seen casements opened to a full 90 degrees and a strong wind catch them and rip them completely off the hinges and someone wonder how that could happen. Sometimes a little common sense goes a long way.


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 Post subject: Re: Quote on Alside Ultramaxx vs NT window
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:19 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:14 pm
Posts: 1859
Location: Milwaukee, Madison areas
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Good points guys... I missed that detail and id agree that keeping a casement open for that length of time will place a lot of stress on the unit, especially in a rather extreme climate.
Ironically, I just replaced one yesterday that was ripped off by a strong wind and landed in the middle of the yard. It wasn't even the vinyl that gave way, the hardware sheared right off.


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 Post subject: Re: Quote on Alside Ultramaxx vs NT window
PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 5:37 am 

Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 5:52 pm
Posts: 1384
Location: SE PA & NJ; CT
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Some mfg use dry glazing, which for casements is a disaster, or they use a heat sensitive back bedding.
I find that units glazed with silicone do not have the sag issue.


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 Post subject: Re: Quote on Alside Ultramaxx vs NT window
PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 11:47 am 

Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:41 am
Posts: 6
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I agree that leaving any window open in strong winds is generally not what a window is designed to withstand. However, leaving windows open in good weather, when air conditioning is not available, and not in a fully extended manner should be OK - how else would someone keep the home interior from overheating? Additionally, if vinyl windows are not to be opened for ventilation in good weather, specifically these Alside casement windows, this fact should be boldly disclosed so that a consumer can make an informed decision. Absolutely none of the literature on Alside's website, in their showroom or from questions posed to Alside's representatives was it ever stated that their casement windows could not be left open in the nice weather months. In fact, I specifically stated to the Alside Branch Manager that I needed a window that could be open in the nice weather months because we did not have air conditioning & he replied that leaving the windows open would be fine.


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 Post subject: Re: Quote on Alside Ultramaxx vs NT window
PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 3:41 pm 

Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 5:52 pm
Posts: 1384
Location: SE PA & NJ; CT
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I would agree that you will not find in any literture that leaveing the windows open for extended times voids your warraty. It is not the norm in to leave them open for extended periods, neither does that void your warranty.
The solution is to either deglaze the windows and wet glaze them with NovaFlexBeads or equal, or a window that comes from the factory wet glazed with silicone.


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