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 Post subject: Starmark Window/Insert Installation Question
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 1:44 pm 

Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2010 11:42 pm
Posts: 25
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Hi Folks,

I just had a few Starmark window inserts installed and have a question about proper installation. The Starmark window inserts have a foam gasket around the outside of the frame perimeter. When these get installed is it enough to rely on the gasket to seal the void between the original window frame and the new window insert (as long as the gasket makes contact all the around / properly filling the void)??
Or do you use an added sealant in addition to the gasket??

Looking to verify what the installation protocol is to maintain proper window performance and insulation etc...

Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: Starmark Window/Insert Installation Question
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 2:07 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2010 12:59 pm
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yes, if the measurement made for a tight fit then just caulking is fine. if there is a larger gap,then foam insulation would be used.
if the gap is too narrow, foam insulation will not stay in, it has no where to settle.


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 Post subject: Re: Starmark Window/Insert Installation Question
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 2:13 pm 

Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2010 11:42 pm
Posts: 25
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Hi Ranger,

Thanks for the quick reply....appreciate it.
I think you are referring to general caulk guidelines, unless I misunderstand (which is quite possible).
My question referred to the foam insulation already installed on the window frame from the factory. Is it enough to rely on that to seal the void between the insert and the original window frame?

Or do you add any other sealant or caulk (in addition) to the factory foam gasket on the frame??

The gap between the insert and the original window frame was approx 3/4 inch all the way around the top and both sides. The foam gasket filled the void on the top and both sides. Only the bottom gap (which was larger) was sprayed with expanding foam.

What is the proper window installation protocol for this?

Thanks again!


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 Post subject: Re: Starmark Window/Insert Installation Question
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 2:27 pm 

Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 5:28 pm
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If the windows were measured really tight and there was no room for foam, that would be my second choice. Better than fiberglass insulation.

There's no "protocol" per se. Just a difference in what some Pro's use. In other words, you would not be justified in expaecting the installer to come back and re-do the job unless you had considerable air leakage.


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 Post subject: Re: Starmark Window/Insert Installation Question
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 3:01 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2010 12:59 pm
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even though the gap is small, the full perimeter foam wrap that comes with the window can be somewhat compressed. so in this case the foam wrap is fine. in fact, thats what the foam wrap is for.


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 Post subject: Re: Starmark Window/Insert Installation Question
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 3:33 pm 

Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2010 11:42 pm
Posts: 25
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Got it...Thanks.

I wasn't looking to use this info to make any changes to the windows that are already installed (unless there are gross discrepencies which does not sound like the case here)....just want to know going forward, as I have plenty more windows to replace.

What got me thinking about it, is that the weather the last couple of days was windy and whenever a heavy wind gust occurs I hear a hiss or whistle (kind of sound) coming from these new windows.
I was just wondering if this might be normal since I am unfamiliar with them, as they are new to me. You can feel the difference (from old to new) that the new windows are tighter though....room feels warmer and quieter.

I figure that there probably isn't anyway to verify if there is a problem (or not) with the window itself or the installation, as it only occurs in heavy wind. I certainly don't want to chase a ghost.

Do you have any experience or advice for situations like this?


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 Post subject: Re: Starmark Window/Insert Installation Question
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 3:42 pm 

Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 5:28 pm
Posts: 211
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I'd ask the installer to come back out and re-inspect the caulking. You shouldn't be hearing noises from your windows. Especially really nice ones like the Starmark.


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 Post subject: Re: Starmark Window/Insert Installation Question
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 3:48 pm 

Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2010 11:42 pm
Posts: 25
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Thanks Ecostar.

Yeah, as I am sitting hear a gentle wind just blew and the window made the same noise. I'll ask them to look at it.

Does this sound like a good approach:
1st try re-caulking all outside window joints and capping.
If noise persists, then remove capping and inspect further.

Thanks,


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 Post subject: Re: Starmark Window/Insert Installation Question
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 4:28 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:14 pm
Posts: 1803
Location: Milwaukee, Madison areas
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If that is what your installer proposed, that sounds fair (on the inspection, etc).
We generally like to add spray foam or caulk (depending on the size of the gap) to that area between the new window and the old frame. That being said, ultimately, your installer is responsible for making sure that the window is installed properly and not leaking air, so whatever method he uses is at his discretion, unless of course it is specified in the contract (mine is).
If you are experiencing ANY whistling or perceptible air infiltration, then that is definitely something that needs to be fixed. That is a very tight window, and it should not have that problem unless there is a defect in the product or installation.
Your course of action to get it fixed sounds good so far.


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 Post subject: Re: Starmark Window/Insert Installation Question
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:10 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:21 pm
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Location: DC Metropolitan Area-Maryland/Virginia/DC
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Be sure to verify that the whistle is as a result of air leakage around the window.

Often times people can hear a hiss or a whistle from around their new windows and it be a result of the screen, capping, or any other change in the exterior of the window.


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 Post subject: Re: Starmark Window/Insert Installation Question
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:39 am 
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Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:58 pm
Posts: 1330
Location: Northern & Central Illinois, Chicago suburbs
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Windows on Washington wrote:
Be sure to verify that the whistle is as a result of air leakage around the window.

Often times people can hear a hiss or a whistle from around their new windows and it be a result of the screen, capping, or any other change in the exterior of the window.


+1
I've seen that happen many times.


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 Post subject: Re: Starmark Window/Insert Installation Question
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:58 pm 

Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2010 11:42 pm
Posts: 25
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will do....It sounds like it is coming through....will check closer to confirm.

I'm not sure if it matters, but the caulking on the outside looks OK except across the window bottom to J-channel (vinyl siding). I can see several large gaps/voids across the bottom section of the new insert to the orginal J-channel.
My original windows from the builder don't have any caulk to any of the J-channels, which makes me wonder if it is necessary or not.

Thanks for all of your help!


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 Post subject: Re: Starmark Window/Insert Installation Question
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:52 am 

Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 5:52 pm
Posts: 1357
Location: SE PA & NJ; CT
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Your old windows probably had a built in flange and did not need to be caulked to the J channel.
The new inserts do not have that and need to be sealed to the J channel.


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 Post subject: Re: Starmark Window/Insert Installation Question
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:10 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:14 pm
Posts: 1803
Location: Milwaukee, Madison areas
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anthony wrote:
Your old windows probably had a built in flange and did not need to be caulked to the J channel.
The new inserts do not have that and need to be sealed to the J channel.

I would just add that it really depends on the exact circumstances... In fact I have seen far too many replacements installed where the new capping is installed over the drip cap and the caulk to the vinyl. That is a major no-no. I diagnose leaks on those installs on a regular basis. Vinyl siding is design to allow moisture behind it, and caulking that to the window or trim in some cases will direct water right into the window opening.
I know that you are aware of that danger anthony, but I just wanted to clarify it for the OP and others who may view this.


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 Post subject: Re: Starmark Window/Insert Installation Question
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:20 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:14 pm
Posts: 1803
Location: Milwaukee, Madison areas
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Here is a pick of exactly what I'm talking about. When homeowner called the original install company to come and fix it, they just put tyvek tape from the metal to the insulation board. That split soon thereafter and started leaking again. I then came in and installed a new piece of trim on the head and a proper drip cap. Dry as a bone since. :D


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