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 Post subject: Central Iowa Recommended Windows
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:58 pm 

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I live in the Des Moines, Iowa area and recently had two window suppliers come out and give me quotes for vinyl replacement windows. I currently have casements but am looking at replacing them with double hung.

The first quote was for Sheffield from Alside and was $11560. The second was for Uniframe windows and was $18,000.

I was close to pulling the trigger on the Sheffields but have since changed my mind after reading reviews on this and other forums. So I am back to square one.

A previous post recommended a U-value < 0.28, SGHC# > 0.25, Infiltration < 0.1, and DP > 50, for NJ. Would those recommendations be the same for Iowa?

It sounds like Okna windows are top of the line, but I have not been able to find any dealers in the area. I am open to any recommendations for quality brands.

I appreciate any information.


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 Post subject: Re: Central Iowa Recommended Windows
PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:38 am 
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bb, I would say that those performance numbers would apply to your location in IA as well. I don't believe that Okna or HiMark have a dealer in your neck of the woods, however Softlite and Sunrise should. They are generally regarded is being in that same "top tier".
As for the choices that you've seen so far, the Uniframe by Plygem is the better window. That said, you have a pretty big price discrepancy there. It is difficult to say without more detail which one of those quotes (if either) are fairly priced.


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 Post subject: Re: Central Iowa Recommended Windows
PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:51 am 
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Okna is not that far West right now.

+1 to HomeSealed advice.

There are certainly better windows out there as compared to what you have looked at. Soft-Lite and Sunrise also make a premium product that will serve your needs well in addition to the offering that HomeSealed mentioned.

How many units at the home?


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 Post subject: Re: Central Iowa Recommended Windows
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 7:14 pm 

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I appreciate the replies. I currently have casement windows but am looking at switching them to double-hungs. I have 17 operable windows with 10 mullions, 4 pictures windows, and (2) 6' sliding doors. I have contacted Sunrise windows, but I'll try contacting Softlite as well.

I'm not sure of the exact reason for the large discrepancy between the two estimates, but the estimate for the Alside windows listed the windows only. The estimate for the Uniguard windows included "rotten wood, lead (if needed), lifetime non prorated warranty, clean-up & haul off. It was also much higher (a published list price of $26,000) but was brought down by different offers. So, it's hard to really get an apples to apples comparison of the two.

I also got two different answers from each regarding which type of window was more efficient. One supplier said that casements were more efficient, while the other supplier said that double-hungs were more efficient. Which could be the case with different manufacturers, but in general is one type more efficient than the other?

Again, I appreciate the insight.


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 Post subject: Re: Central Iowa Recommended Windows
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 8:35 pm 
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Casements are more efficient bar none. Double hungs are fine and a high quality product will be very efficient, but a casement will always be more so. What are the colors, glass packages and other options?... On the surface, it looks like the Plygem is on the high side of a reasonable range (but not over it), while the Alside is on the very low end of it. My opinion on that could change however depending on the other options. Did the Plygem guy have big price drops? Any high-pressure sales?... If so I generally recommend staying away from that type of company.
I'd get a couple more quotes regardless, to see where the other pricing comes in, and to possibly see a better product as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Central Iowa Recommended Windows
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:10 am 

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Well the big factor in the price difference is scope/qty and quality.
The two patio doors could be 4000 to 6000, or more.
The alside windows are low quality.
I am not a big fan of sales gimmicks. It appears to me that you do not yet have a good handle on the project, but you are getting there.


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 Post subject: Re: Central Iowa Recommended Windows
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:15 am 
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bbartlet wrote:

I also got two different answers from each regarding which type of window was more efficient. One supplier said that casements were more efficient, while the other supplier said that double-hungs were more efficient. Which could be the case with different manufacturers, but in general is one type more efficient than the other?

Again, I appreciate the insight.


Just wanted to add to HomeSealed comments.

Casements will not necessarily be more efficient than double hungs when you compare U-Factors, SHGC, misc. NFRC data if they have the same glass package and option that the double hung has.

Where they will invariably be more efficient is in their air tightness ratings. Casements, as a function of their design and operation, will be more air tight and have less air leakage. That is the basis for the improved dynamic efficiency.


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 Post subject: Re: Central Iowa Recommended Windows
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:23 am 
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Agreed. Thanks for clarifying. :D


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 Post subject: Re: Central Iowa Recommended Windows
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:36 am 
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Windows on Washington wrote:

Casements will not necessarily be more efficient than double hungs when you compare U-Factors, SHGC, misc. NFRC data if they have the same glass package and option that the double hung has.

Where they will invariably be more efficient is in their air tightness ratings. Casements, as a function of their design and operation, will be more air tight and have less air leakage. That is the basis for the improved dynamic efficiency.

+1
While most double hungs do not reach the super-low air infiltration numbers of casements, it is possible for premium double hungs to reach performance numbers once reserved only for casements.
As you know, the Okna / HiMark 800 double hung has the exact same .26 u-factor and .01 air infiltration rate as the Okna 700 casement.
The Softlite Elements also has this .01 rating and the Sunrise double hung at a .04 is pretty close to casement numbers as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Central Iowa Recommended Windows
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 11:32 am 
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Window4U (IL) wrote:
Windows on Washington wrote:

Casements will not necessarily be more efficient than double hungs when you compare U-Factors, SHGC, misc. NFRC data if they have the same glass package and option that the double hung has.

Where they will invariably be more efficient is in their air tightness ratings. Casements, as a function of their design and operation, will be more air tight and have less air leakage. That is the basis for the improved dynamic efficiency.

+1
While most double hungs do not reach the super-low air infiltration numbers of casements, it is possible for premium double hungs to reach performance numbers once reserved only for casements.
As you know, the Okna / HiMark 800 double hung has the exact same .26 u-factor and .01 air infiltration rate as the Okna 700 casement.
The Softlite Elements also has this .01 rating and the Sunrise double hung at a .04 is pretty close to casement numbers as well.


Air number on the casement is rounded up to 0.01

Actually air number is 0.004 if I am not mistaken.

+1


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 Post subject: Re: Central Iowa Recommended Windows
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 11:56 am 

Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:31 pm
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Both estimates should have just been for their regular white vinyl packages inside and out. We didn't ask them to add in any other options.

Plygem did have pretty large price drops. He started with a "Price as Published" that was about $26,600 but when he added in the home show discounts (where we initially met both companies), bulk discounts, etc., and a buy 5 get one free discount from Plygem it came down to the $18,000. It seemed like a common sales technique, (similar to MSRP on a new car vs. what you might actually pay) but I didn't feel pressured.

The Alside had a similar tactic, but again, I didn't feel pressured but I have pretty much decided against this product at this point.

Our initial goal of the estimates was to get a handle on whether or not we could afford to do all the windows at once or have to do them in stages. I am working on getting other estimates as well from Softlite and Sunrise. But if $18,000 was a tad on the high side, does a budget of around $15,000 - $16,000 seem reasonable (assuming no unforseen problems)? Or did that just seem a bit on the high side for Uniguard windows?


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 Post subject: Re: Central Iowa Recommended Windows
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 3:09 pm 
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Its all relative so it is difficult to nail down exact numbers, but I'd be willing to bet that you could find an equal or better product for a better price. As I stated before, I'm just not a fan of the big price drops. Discounts are fine, but if someone has fair and honest pricing in the first place, maybe you are looking at ten to fifteen percent off. This guy busted out with 30% off! Everyone has their own way of doing business, but I just don't care for that method as it is often accompanied by other questionable tactics. I have no idea who this company is, so this is all speculation on my part, but I would definitely take a close look at the company's ethics.


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 Post subject: Re: Central Iowa Recommended Windows
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 5:05 pm 
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HomeSealed wrote:
Its all relative so it is difficult to nail down exact numbers, but I'd be willing to bet that you could find an equal or better product for a better price. As I stated before, I'm just not a fan of the big price drops. Discounts are fine, but if someone has fair and honest pricing in the first place, maybe you are looking at ten to fifteen percent off. This guy busted out with 30% off! Everyone has their own way of doing business, but I just don't care for that method as it is often accompanied by other questionable tactics. I have no idea who this company is, so this is all speculation on my part, but I would definitely take a close look at the company's ethics.


+1

A 30% drop is bit on the offensive side if I am a consumer.

I would wait until you get the Soft-Lite and Sunrise quotes and re-approach after that.


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 Post subject: Re: Central Iowa Recommended Windows
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:26 pm 

Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 7:41 am
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What did OP decide to go with? We are also in the Des Moines area and trying to decide between Sunrise and Soft-Lite Imperial LS.


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