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 Post subject: Coil Wrap or PVC Trim Replacement?
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 10:22 am 

Joined: Wed May 30, 2012 10:14 am
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I've gotten a number of quotes on replacement windows and the past posts on this site have been invaluable in evaluating those quotes. I think I'm down to two folks who are basically selling the same window (one Atrium, one ViewPoint which appears to be Atrium private labeled by Norandex), same glass, both good reputation.

The only difference is the trim treatment. The first guy (and all of the other quotes I rejected) were for a PVC coated coil wrap. Driving around town this appears to be how 99% of the replacement windows are installed here, and I have several neighbors done this way. The second guy wants to remove the brick mould trim and replace it with new PVC trim. He is of course more expensive, PVC costs more than coil, and it's more labor to install that way.

The guy quoting the PVC is telling me the coil is a "cover up" solution, the wood will just rot behind it and eventually cause problems in the future and that it really should be replaced to do the job right. Not being a fan of wood on the outside of a house I sort of feel like he's right.

But the coil guy, as well as several others I asked about PVC trim replacement after I got a quote with that are saying the coil, installed properly, is just fine, won't be a problem and paying for PVC replacement is just spending a lot of money for no gain. While it goes against my gut, since 99% of the houses are done this way and I haven't heard a lot of stories about bad outcomes I can't help but wonder if they are right.

Two questions. Is PVC trim replacement a higher quality job than a coil wrap job? If it is a higher quality job, is it worth ~18% more to have it done that way?


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 Post subject: Re: Coil Wrap or PVC Trim Replacement?
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 10:48 am 

Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:14 pm
Posts: 398
Location: New Jersey Window Pro- Northern NJ and Central NJ
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first, if there is any rotted exterior trim, it needs to be repaired/ replaced before installing aluminum coil.
second, done correctly, aluminum coil is a great long term option.
is pvc trim worth an extra 20%? beauty is in the eye of the beholder. i use it from time to time when requested but i have to tell you, pvc aluminum looks very nice if a true craftsman is installing it.


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 Post subject: Re: Coil Wrap or PVC Trim Replacement?
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 12:21 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:21 pm
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Location: DC Metropolitan Area-Maryland/Virginia/DC
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In my mind...not at all.

I prefer the performance coil exteriors because the finishes are a bit more durable than the PVC.

Regardless, PVC and the Performance finishes are roughly the same price from a materials standpoint and the labor is the same.


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 Post subject: Re: Coil Wrap or PVC Trim Replacement?
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 1:00 pm 

Joined: Wed May 30, 2012 10:14 am
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Reading the replies and thinking about it some more I think I'm going to go back to the cheaper guy (who I also just thought was a bit more knowledgeable overall) who was pushing the coil wrap and ask about doing coil for all my brick openings, but PVC replacement for the 4 windows I have in siding. The coil wrap does look nice in the brick openings looking at some neighbor houses, but the ones that have it on the siding surrounded windows looks a bit cheesy. You get some nails visible, and it just looks "wrapped" rather than "professionally installed" if that makes any sense. I'm planning to paint the siding and house trim (not around windows) after the windows are installed, so I can have the painter paint the new PVC trim around the siding windows and I think they will look quite good.

There's only 3 windows with trim damage, most of my rot and problems are on the sashes. It's all minor, and they said they would cut out and repair those small sections prior to wrapping.


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 Post subject: Re: Coil Wrap or PVC Trim Replacement?
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 4:10 pm 
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Location: DC Metropolitan Area-Maryland/Virginia/DC
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Good luck with the installation and post up some pictures when you are done.


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 Post subject: Re: Coil Wrap or PVC Trim Replacement?
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 4:39 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:14 pm
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Location: Milwaukee, Madison areas
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I second the above posts. Either method is acceptable and can be done beautifully by someone who is skilled. We generally wrap the existing trim, however if full replacement with PVC is in your budget, it is certainly something to consider. We offer both. Most clients find that the full PVC replacement is not worth the extra $ for minimal aesthetic difference, but if you have a discerning eye, perhaps it may be... My own home is wrapped, FWIW.


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 Post subject: Re: Coil Wrap or PVC Trim Replacement?
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 4:21 am 

Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 5:52 pm
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Location: SE PA & NJ; CT
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So with PVC trim how is the sill done, is just the sill nose wacked off?
What happens to the storm window stop?
What happens with the stainless steel nail holes?

Trim coil/capping will get you at least twenty years.


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 Post subject: Re: Coil Wrap or PVC Trim Replacement?
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 5:32 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:32 pm
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Location: Delaware, New Jersey, Philadephia Area
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I was curious about how the PVC brickmolding was performed just as Anthony was?


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 Post subject: Re: Coil Wrap or PVC Trim Replacement?
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 11:24 am 

Joined: Wed May 30, 2012 10:14 am
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I called back the wrap guy (who I think I'm going to use) to ask about the trim replacement for the ones in siding, and he explained to me the process for that and basically had the same question you guys all have. He said there was two ways to do it, leave the existing wooden sill, replace the other trim around, and use a filler bit of trim between the new window and the sill. He didn't think that looked good, and of course left an exposed wooden sill and he bet money that's what the other guy was quoting me.

The other way to do it was to replace all or part of the sill; he couldn't remember how my windows were made on the phone to know if they could replace just the nose or not. However he said now you're into significant dollars in labor and almost might as well be looking at full-frame replacement to get a quality job.

Once he explained it to me, I saw the questions here, and thought about it I understood the problem. I called back the guy wanting to do the PVC replacement and asked him for a completed job nearby I could go see. He's going to provide me two they did on the same street as soon as he gets back to his office. They are less than a mile from me. I'm going to go take a look, I'm betting they are leaving the sills in place and doing some sort of small trim bit between the new window and sill.

If that's the case, the deal is sealed, I'll go with the wrap guy. Better price and he's seemed to be more knowledgeable overall, and all of his references were glowing.


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 Post subject: Re: Coil Wrap or PVC Trim Replacement?
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 8:48 pm 

Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:37 pm
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I was told that the vinyl cladding was not the same quality unplasticized cellular PVC they use for the windows, so the vinyl cladding was more prone to warp and crack in the future.

And that was the reason to stick with aluminum wrapping over wood.

Is that true?


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 Post subject: Re: Coil Wrap or PVC Trim Replacement?
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 8:53 pm 

Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 5:52 pm
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Location: SE PA & NJ; CT
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No.
Azek makes very nice stuff.


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 Post subject: Re: Coil Wrap or PVC Trim Replacement?
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 9:16 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:14 pm
Posts: 1855
Location: Milwaukee, Madison areas
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anthony wrote:
No.
Azek makes very nice stuff.

+1... In a full frame replacement, full PVC replacement is easier and makes more sense than it does for inserts. In insert applications, we have added aluminum (smooth or PVC coated) over the blind stop, and used PVC stock for the sill nose. It is a method that is used few and far between, but it turns out nicely.


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 Post subject: Re: Coil Wrap or PVC Trim Replacement?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:58 am 

Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 5:52 pm
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Location: SE PA & NJ; CT
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Homesealed, if you shoot the PVC on do you use stainless steel and do you putty or caulk the holes?


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 Post subject: Re: Coil Wrap or PVC Trim Replacement?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:17 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:32 pm
Posts: 637
Location: Delaware, New Jersey, Philadephia Area
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One can cap, wrap, or clad a window. Cladding and wrapping would mean virtually the same thing to me. Andersen clads the exterior of their wood windows. The exterior cladding fits very tightly over the wood. I clad or wrap the exterior of the entry doors that I install. Windows can get capped, which may be just a little different than cladding. With capping there may be some smaller voids in which the capping doesn't exactly hug every contour on the exterior casing profile, no big deal and is very common with box bends.

Most skilled professions can dazzle homeowners with their bending abilities with free hand or tool formed brickmold formed custom detail bends of aluminum. If I were installing either new construction windows or a retrofit window without a extended wood sill, I think that Azek type PVC trim boards would be the way to go.

With most of my retrofit type of installs I prefer very clean and properly capped sills and exterior casings. When folks have vinyl siding I like to utilize PVC coated vinyl coated aluminum trim coil which tends to blend and look very nicely with vinyl siding. The only drawback with the PVC coated aluminum is that it tends to get dirty and can be harder to clean down the road maintenance wise. Smooth enamels can chalk over time, but tend to look more appropriate on older homes with aluminum siding. High performance painted aluminum like what WOW was referring to are a nice choice and show a dealer's vast experience and attention to detail. I personally like No-Mar 5000 by Quality Edge.

Good Luck.


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 Post subject: Re: Coil Wrap or PVC Trim Replacement?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:12 am 

Joined: Wed May 30, 2012 10:14 am
Posts: 5
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I inspected one of the PVC jobs. What it looks like they do to me is remove the top and side molding, install the insert, then replace the top and side with PVC and install a small PVC filler between the bottom of the insert and the old wood sill. This leaves ~1-2 inches of the nose of the old wood sill exposed. The PVC and wood sill are then all painted.

The big down side of course is leaving some of the old wood sill exposed, which to me sort of defeats the purpose of going with the PVC for the rest of the trim. The overall look was nice, but in my opinion not a lot nicer than the coil wrap. Given the PVC guy wants more money for the job in the first place, and I then would have to paint all of the PVC and exposed sills on top of it we decided to go with the coil wrap job.

Signed the contract yesterday. I was told 2-3 weeks for the windows to come in, I'll try and remember to post some before and after photos when they are done.


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