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 Post subject: Replacement windows for old, drafty rental property
PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 2:34 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 7:23 pm
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Background:
I have a rental duplex that was built in 1908 (its in SE VA so the climate is faily moderate). The windows are original and are in pretty bad shape. Many don't open, won't stay open, leak air, etc. I'm sure they were very nice in their day but this is not the type of place that would be worth restoring. Our tenants' utility bills are pretty high especially in the winter. We are looking into vinyl replacements to help with this. Obviously cost is a large factor here and we aren't interested in top of the line windows as we would for our own house. I'm thinking single hung since they have fewer moving parts and its just one less thing for tenants to swing out and break/lose/etc. So far we have 3 estimates and only 1 company can provide single hungs (Alside Model 0700).

My greatest fear is that we will replace the windows and will still have problem with air leaks around them. None of the people I have talked to have indicated that they would insulate the weight pocket, around the framing, etc. I figure this is a golden opportunity to take care of things like this while the windows are out, but I really don't have any idea if its necessary or even what measures COULD be taken to prevent air infiltration.

Does anyone know what kind of things could be done to help with air leakage when it comes to replacing 100 year old windows, and what questions should I be asking the window people in this regard? I have found a wealth of information on the window technologies themselves on this board and other places on the net so I am more concerned with installation workmanship. Thank you to anyone who can offer some advice!


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 Post subject: Re: Replacement windows for old, drafty rental property
PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 9:05 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:21 pm
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Location: DC Metropolitan Area-Maryland/Virginia/DC
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Insulation of the weight pockets, properly measured replacement windows, low expansion foam the entire perimeter and all imperfections around the opening.


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 Post subject: Re: Replacement windows for old, drafty rental property
PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 1:17 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 7:23 pm
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Thanks! We have gotten now 4 estimates and so far none of them have mentioned this. We are leaning toward Simonton Bronze but are wary of the 10 year warranty for non-owner occupied property.


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 Post subject: Re: Replacement windows for old, drafty rental property
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:33 pm 

Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 5:52 pm
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Location: SE PA & NJ; CT
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If WOW serviced your area they would be the no brainer choice.
I would look at the HiMark 400DX.
You need a very good installer to maximize the results of your project.


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 Post subject: Re: Replacement windows for old, drafty rental property
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 11:33 am 

Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 11:06 am
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All of the above Responses are correct: in addition to insulating the sash pockets, it's important to make sure that the Casing on the inside of the windows are sealed against the walls -- often, this gets pulled away when the original windows are taken out. One of the windows that you mentioned, Alside, is a good product; the excalibur, is probably what you would want to look at. An alternative to Alside is Dove 2800 (use to be the 2000) - There isn't much info given about it on the internet, but it's a manufacturer I've been using for over 17 Years ( I've installed over 50,000 of this product). It's not perfect, but it's a company that stands behind and backs up the warranty they claim. Lastly, make sure that you order your windows - regardless of the manufacturer - with the foam wrap.

Best of luck,


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 Post subject: Re: Replacement windows for old, drafty rental property
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 3:06 pm 

Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:37 pm
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kelemer brothers wrote:
All of the above Responses are correct: in addition to insulating the sash pockets, it's important to make sure that the Casing on the inside of the windows are sealed against the walls -- often, this gets pulled away when the original windows are taken out. One of the windows that you mentioned, Alside, is a good product; the excalibur, is probably what you would want to look at. An alternative to Alside is Dove 2800 (use to be the 2000) - There isn't much info given about it on the internet, but it's a manufacturer I've been using for over 17 Years ( I've installed over 50,000 of this product). It's not perfect, but it's a company that stands behind and backs up the warranty they claim. Lastly, make sure that you order your windows - regardless of the manufacturer - with the foam wrap.

Best of luck,


I am pretty sure that most of the folks on here would disagree with you on your recommendation of the Alside Excalibur.

Foam wrap does not stop air infiltration as it is and open cell foam passes air through it quite easily. It is helpful from the standpoint of temporarily supporting the windows but that is about it.


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 Post subject: Re: Replacement windows for old, drafty rental property
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 3:44 pm 

Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 11:06 am
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Thanks for your response in regards to the Alside - excalibur and of the Foam wrap:

If you've read the initial question - The person was looking to invest in windows for his/her rental property, and this person wasn't looking for the most expensive option - I do agree w. you that the foam wrap is an open cell, but in a sense, so is insulation - which are tiny air pockets.
Would it be as good as the spray in OSI, probably not. Are there better windows than the Alside Excalibur? Absolutely!

Fortunately, there isn't a one window fit all solution - Budget is a big part of the equation.

Thanks for your input!


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 Post subject: Re: Replacement windows for old, drafty rental property
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 3:55 pm 

Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:37 pm
Posts: 43
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Given that installation details will be about the same regardless of window manufacturer, the relatively small price difference materials should not make or break a project.

This is why consumers would be well served to go with a nicer window (i.e. Simontons are widely distributed and available) regardless of the rental property part of the equation.

You don't want to be servicing the window down the road so get a good product.

The small air pockets don't do much to insulate unless the air is static. Spray foam or caulk and backer rod are the only way to go on the larger gaps. Smaller gaps can just be caulked.


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 Post subject: Re: Replacement windows for old, drafty rental property
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:18 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:14 pm
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Location: Milwaukee, Madison areas
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kelemer brothers wrote:
Thanks for your response in regards to the Alside - excalibur and of the Foam wrap:

If you've read the initial question - The person was looking to invest in windows for his/her rental property, and this person wasn't looking for the most expensive option - I do agree w. you that the foam wrap is an open cell, but in a sense, so is insulation - which are tiny air pockets.
Would it be as good as the spray in OSI, probably not. Are there better windows than the Alside Excalibur? Absolutely!

Fortunately, there isn't a one window fit all solution - Budget is a big part of the equation.

Thanks for your input!

kelemer brothers

Your thoughtful posts are appreciated kelemer brothers, however I'm going to have to agree with Tommy J that the Excalibur would not be recommended, and that the foam wrap alone is insufficient. While the OP did mention that it is a rental, he also expressed an interest in installing a well-built, "tight" product as evidenced by his comments on air-leakage and being able to withstand the abuse of tenants. The Excalibur has a poor AI rating in comparison to many other products, some of which can probably be installed in the same price range. It is also a very "narrow-lined" window which could be regarded as flimsy compared to other choices. I have personally replaced more bowed sashes in that product line than any other. Are there better products? Yes. Are there worse products? Yes... Can a consumer that is ready and willing to do research on a site such as this likely find a product with superior performance ratings in the same price range? Absolutely.


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