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 Post subject: window wrap question
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:52 am 

Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:18 am
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Hello, first time poster here.

I'm planning to have 15 original 1942 wood windows replaced with vinyl replacements in my new home. The siding and window wrap was done about 10 years ago. When the storms are removed, it will expose part of the window that was not previously wrapped.

Questions:

1) Would it be better to have the windows completely re-wrapped or just have the new trim pieces added to cover the newly exposed wood? The current wrapping looks old, and I'd like these new windows to really pop after I spend $$ on the job.

2) Whichever way I go in #1, can this be done after the windows are installed or does it need to be done at the same time as the windows? I read somewhere that the sil trim needs to be done at the same time as the window because it tucks under the window. Is this true?

I was planning on having a recommended local carpenter install the replacement windows for a great price, but I'm thinking the wrapping should be done by a real siding expert as a separate job after reading about how this is much more of an acquired skill. But if the two jobs need to be done simultaneously, that complicates the matter and I might just go with a real window/siding contractor (have another good reco if I go that route).

I added photos of a window with and without the storm installed.

Please share your opinions! Thanks.


Attachments:
File comment: window without storm
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File comment: Window with storm
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 Post subject: Re: window wrap question
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:21 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:14 pm
Posts: 1893
Location: Milwaukee, Madison areas
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I would definitely recommend a full re-wrap. Just covering those strips in question would be called a "blind stop wrap", and I'd only recommend that if the trim was relatively new and looked really nice. In those pics, that wrap job does not look very professional. A full re-wrap would also allow for an exterior installation, where rather than having to take apart your interior woodwork, those blind stops are removed to allow installation from the outside. That saves your interior trim from nail holes, cracked paint, and other potential damage.
As far as installers, my recommendation would be to have one competent installer/company do everything. Anytime you have more than one party involved on a particular project, it opens the door for them to shift the blame to each other should any issues arise down the road. It is also less work for you in terms of coordination, etc.
Lastly, you want to make sure that whoever does the work is a certified lead-safe renovator. There are some pretty substantial liability issues that could arise as well.


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 Post subject: Re: window wrap question
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:52 pm 

Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:18 am
Posts: 9
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thanks!

i'm having the window/siding guy come out tomorrow to look at the job. He came recommended by someone at ABC supply, and has been in the business for 30+ years as verified on BBB.org. I'll ask about the outside installation when we start talking about the wrapping. The outside installation sounds like a great way to avoid spreading lead particles throughout the house. I imaging you could just seal the inside flush to the trim.

What should one look for in a high quality wrap? Have any good pictures?


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 Post subject: Re: window wrap question
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 3:28 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:21 pm
Posts: 3725
Location: DC Metropolitan Area-Maryland/Virginia/DC
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+1 on HomeSealed's advice.


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 Post subject: Re: window wrap question
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 6:38 pm 

Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 5:52 pm
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Location: SE PA & NJ; CT
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You will be disappointed if you do ot do new full caps.
theWindowNerd.


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 Post subject: Re: window wrap question
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:20 pm 

Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:18 am
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thanks for the advice.

FYI-Before doing any research, I had Lowe's and HD quote the job. Lowe's was going to do the "blind stop wrap" for ~$100/w and HD didn't even discuss that aspect of the job. I'm glad I spent some time on this website.


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 Post subject: Re: window wrap question
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:27 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:14 pm
Posts: 1893
Location: Milwaukee, Madison areas
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There is no such thing as too much research! I think that you have saved yourself from a decision that may have left you unsatisfied.

On what to look for:
Tight joints properly lapped, and a nice clean caulk job.
Your thinking on lead containment is spot-on as well. A common component with lead-safe installation is sealing off the interior of the window opening with plastic during demolition and removal of the existing window components. The opening is then properly cleaned, plastic removed, and the window is installed up to the existing interior trim. Very clean install. :)


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 Post subject: Re: window wrap question
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:20 pm 

Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 7:11 am
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You can easily do an exterior install with a blindstop only wrap. The interior should be cleaned regardless of which side the lead is contained upon. Best way to check a window wrap is to check it before they do any caulking.I have seen many poor wraps that look pretty good after they caulk. Make sure they undercut the casing where it meets the sill and the aluminum runs about an under it and under the window. They should have small clean caulk joints and I prefer no caulk where the casing meets the sill, just a nicely scribed joint. +100 on a full wrap if you want it to pop and an excellent time to change the color from that boring white. I would also consider putting a brickmold/backband bend in the casing to give it a little more detail and since i dislike flat casing. It is a pretty simple wrap job but you a good pro doing it or it will look bad and can cause problems due to water leakage. The wrapping is just as important if not more so than the window install. Not that that is settled let's here about what brand of windows are being installed.


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 Post subject: Re: window wrap question
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:29 am 

Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:18 am
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Based on what I've read here, the Simonton 5500 are a safe bet. I was also looking at the Certainteed Bryn Mawr, which received good ratings by Consumer Reports. Both are available at my local ABC.


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 Post subject: Re: window wrap question
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 2:38 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:14 pm
Posts: 1893
Location: Milwaukee, Madison areas
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The Simonton is a safe bet. It is not a top performer, but it is indeed a decent window, and one of the better options that you'll find from a supply house. If on the other hand you want a true upper echelon performer, you generally will not find what you are looking for in a supply house. Most of the top products are sold direct to dealers. These dealers are typically passionate about offering the best possible product available, and have established successful businesses that justify a "direct" purchasing relationship, and will therefore be more likely to be around down the road should you need service.


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 Post subject: Re: window wrap question
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:17 pm 

Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 7:11 am
Posts: 331
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ABC also sells Ply-Gem in my area.


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 Post subject: Re: window wrap question
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 6:33 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:21 pm
Posts: 3725
Location: DC Metropolitan Area-Maryland/Virginia/DC
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I prefer the Ply Gem premium over the 5500 in that comparison. Gives you more glass and cleaner lines.

While you can do just a blind stop wrap, most customer prefer the cleaned up look and maintenance free aspect of a full trim wrapping.


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 Post subject: Re: window wrap question
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 7:51 am 

Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 7:11 am
Posts: 331
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The blindstop wrap would be maintenance free as well ( besides the caulk joints of course)and its looks all depend on the existing wrap.


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 Post subject: Re: window wrap question
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:29 am 

Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:18 am
Posts: 9
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Update: So 50% of the windows are installed. They did the outside installation and it went well. Windows look great from the inside (see attachment). The other 50% came in the wrong size and are another week out.

On the outside, they still have to do the capping. This is delayed because the guy who was going to do it went to the hospital for something, but either he or a replacement is coming later this week to do all the capping.

Upon inspection of the outside, I noticed that there is very little to no gap on the sides, and therefore no insulation. They were planning to use a strip of fiberglass that wraps around the window, but in the end they only put it in the top expander. I added some photos of the windows from the outside showing the tight fit gap.

Is this a concern? And should I ask them to stuff in whatever insulation they can get in there in areas where the gap may be larger (around 1/16 max)?


Attachments:
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IMG_9062.jpg [53.14 KiB]
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IMG_9070.jpg [38.62 KiB]
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 Post subject: Re: window wrap question
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 1:33 pm 

Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 5:52 pm
Posts: 1407
Location: SE PA & NJ; CT
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Looks like to small of a gap to foam or batt, at least on the sides.
the bottom can be insulated.
I would ask them to foam the bottom and caulk the small gap before securing and caulking the capping.
Why did you hire someone whom you have to ask us about the way they are doing the job?


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