Need help replacing my windows in Tennesee

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randy
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Re: Need help replacing my windows in Tennesee

#16 Post by randy » Fri Feb 08, 2013 8:03 am

The Verde comes with Cardinal's XL Edge stainless steel spacer, which is very good and totally acceptable, IMO. Foam filling is included as well.

The only problem I had when I was choosing between the Vanguard and the Verde is the lack of reinforcement. The Verde had less than the Vanguard and you couldn't add it as an option. Perhaps that has changed in the past year and a half though. If you can add reinforcement, I certainly would.

Even without the reinforcement, I would probably choose it over the Gorell, but they are close, so you might let it come down to the installation details and your preference of one window over the other.

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HomeSealed
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Re: Need help replacing my windows in Tennesee

#17 Post by HomeSealed » Fri Feb 08, 2013 8:27 am

Thanks for clarifying that (option content) randy, I'd agree with that assessment. :D

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Re: Need help replacing my windows in Tennesee

#18 Post by beedee2 » Sat Feb 09, 2013 10:50 am

Thanks for the reply's. I don't think reinforcement is an option at this time since I questioned the absence and the seller didn't offer an upgrade. He did say that he could get the Vanguard but at a 10-15% premium. Won't know about that until I get his est. for the Verde.

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Re: Need help replacing my windows in Tennesee

#19 Post by beedee2 » Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:14 pm

I noticed that the Verde doesn't have an interlock between the upper and lower sash when closed, although it did seem to have a full width/thicker pile. Is the interlock something that makes a window "better". The Gorell and Vista had this feature.

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Delaware Mike
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Re: Need help replacing my windows in Tennesee

#20 Post by Delaware Mike » Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:48 pm

I wouldn't worry about the lack of a interlock system on the Sunrise double-hung as when the engineers where designing this window they had built several test models. Some had a sash interlock system, and some did not. Sunrise found no performance benefits of the window with the interlock, thus decided to go a different direction than most of the vinyl industry. I've find in my experience that a low grade lose tolerance window with an interlock can leak a ton of air around the sash meeting rail. The Sunrise design seems to be one of the tightest windows tolerance wise and their sashes seem to seal especially tight at it's meeting rails.

I asked this very same question out to the Sunrise plant back in 2005 when I was touring the assembly line. The response came directly from the owner. Could be well rehearsed "hog wash" or the simple truth. After installing thousands of their DH products I can tell you that from an air leakage point, it's one the tightest units out there.

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Re: Need help replacing my windows in Tennesee

#21 Post by beedee2 » Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:01 pm

Thanks, DM. The Verde is beginning to look real good.

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Re: Need help replacing my windows in Tennesee

#22 Post by HomeSealed » Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:28 pm

I have also installed hundreds if not thousands of that product, and while I do believe that it is an upper tier performer, the lack of interlock is a detriment, not a benefit. If it was a positive design feature, other manufacturers would follow suit (this is a "copy cat" industry at the end of the day). As a matter of fact, I put the Sunrise casement in the top 2 or 3 vinyl windows, but the Dh's are a distant 3rd at best after Softlite and Okna.
Great product when installed properly, but it is also the least "installer friendly" of the 3 IMO... Please don't think that you are looking at a "bad product " by any means, just had to give my $.02 on that design feature. :wink:

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Re: Need help replacing my windows in Tennesee

#23 Post by randy » Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:05 am

I have to agree with HomeSealed. The lack of a sash interlock is a negative for me, however, I wouldn't let it be the deciding factor when choosing between windows. Sunrise makes a very nice product and has achieved a very good AI rating without an interlock.

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Delaware Mike
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Re: Need help replacing my windows in Tennesee

#24 Post by Delaware Mike » Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:09 am

Sunrise DH's can can be fussy for installers to install due to their "slimline" profile, especially wider units. No argument there. In most circumstances I'll default my recommendations to a OKNA 800dx, Soft-Lite LS, or AWI Energex series. All of these units feature a composite meeting rail reinforcement insert standard. Sunrise would have this on my Vanguard series.

My best guess on why Sunrise went away from the interlock system is two part. First would be the narrow profile of the sashes that Sunrise was trying to maximize glass preservation. Secondly, I think back in the late 90's when this design was on the drawling board just about all vinyl windows were very bulky and ugly. The extrusions didn't have as much engineering to the "I beam" internal walls for added strength, plus looser manufacturing tolerances. I've seen really cheap windows like this have the interlocks ride over each other and not allow the locks to even engage at all, thus creating a service call nightmare for dealers. This typically wouldn't happen initially as the installer would catch this right away. I would see this after some heating and cooling cycles especially when the window was left unlocked all of the time.

I've never had a problem with an interlock system from Soft-Lite, OKNA, Vista, Simonton, or Affinity. Better windows, less problems. Every window is also subject to personal preferences and each individual's circumstances and unique installation. When I see a homeowner that hates the general bulky look of vinyl and has average or really small windows, I'll present a window like the Sunrise Vanguard or OKNA 500/400 series. On a really tight budget it may even be a Soft-Lite Bainbridge or Pro.

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HomeSealed
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Re: Need help replacing my windows in Tennesee

#25 Post by HomeSealed » Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:13 pm

I can't really disagree with any of that :D ... My speculation is that it was done to avoid the issues that lower end products have with their interlocks including upper sash drift, but as you mentioned , a well engineered and put together product rarely sees those issues.
...and just to reiterate, Sunrise is a very nice product. To put it in perspective for consumers, the differences that we are talking about are the difference between a BMW, a Lexus, and a Mercedes for the most part.

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Re: Need help replacing my windows in Tennesee

#26 Post by toddinmn » Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:18 am

With the Sunrise being the Mercedes?

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Re: Need help replacing my windows in Tennesee

#27 Post by HomeSealed » Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:39 am

toddinmn wrote:With the Sunrise being the Mercedes?
Ha! ... actually I'd say the Lexus. :lol:

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Delaware Mike
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Re: Need help replacing my windows in Tennesee

#28 Post by Delaware Mike » Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:21 pm

What stings us dealers is the fact that the Sunrise products are priced more like a Bentley. :(

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Re: Need help replacing my windows in Tennesee

#29 Post by HomeSealed » Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:58 pm

Delaware Mike wrote:What stings us dealers is the fact that the Sunrise products are priced more like a Bentley. :(
Very true! :lol:

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Re: Need help replacing my windows in Tennesee

#30 Post by toddinmn » Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:08 am

Not hurting dealers who sell other brands, I'd prefer to bid against a Sunrise only dealer. I think it hurts Sunrise and the customer more.

I had a lot of problems with the last Benz I had and hold Lexus to a higher standard within the same class. It was a Sprinter though and rebadged as Freightliner.

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