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 Post subject: Re: Need help replacing my windows in Tennesee
PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:20 pm 

Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:57 pm
Posts: 14
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Update #3 on window selection:

Finally got an estimate from the Sunrise installer. He had a bad case of the Flu, and I
was away for a few days.

44 total windows:
29 DH's: 15 - 72x31, 12 - 60x31, 2 - 35x23
13 pic: 1 - 70x35, 5 - 60x31, 2 - 48x31 5 - 2x1(tansom)
2 half rounds: 1 - 72W x 36H at ctr point , 1 -31W x 12 at ctr point

His est. for the Verde with Solar12 glass pack, 7/8" overall dual pane & SolarGuard spacer (.28 UF, .21 SHGC, .04 AI, R-factor of 7.14 with the UltraCore frame) came to $21,500. To get dbl pane reinforced sash I would have to get the Vanguard at 10% add'l cost. A triple pane Verde package with .22 UF, .22 SHGC would be $26,900.

This is lower than the Gorell at $23,000

Comments?




.


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 Post subject: Re: Need help replacing my windows in Tennesee
PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 10:33 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:14 pm
Posts: 1893
Location: Milwaukee, Madison areas
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This is a hard one. 1) I like the Sunrise package slightly better because it will save you some glass space without sacrificing performance. 2)That said, I'd like to tell you to run as fast as you can from that Sunrise dealer if he is trying to imply that the R value of 7.14 is accurate in ANY way shape or form as it pertains to the full window assembly. Since U value is the inverse of r-value/factor, R-7.14 = U .14.... Far cry from U .28 wouldn't you say? I like the product, but I don't recommend doing business with anyone that uses dishonest or misleading sales tactics.


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 Post subject: Re: Need help replacing my windows in Tennesee
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:21 am 

Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:57 pm
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The R-factor is from the manufacturer's sales brochure, not from the sales guy. It's also on the web site: http://verdewindowsanddoors.com/green_features.html.
All of the ratings that I posted are from the same sources. I may be misunderstanding what I read and will let you verify. Again, the sales guy did not give me this info.

One thing I failed to mention earlier is the Verde's absence of weep holes. Is this considered to be a plus? Also, is 10% to upgrade for the Vanguard something you might go for?


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 Post subject: Re: Need help replacing my windows in Tennesee
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:28 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:21 pm
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Location: DC Metropolitan Area-Maryland/Virginia/DC
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Of the two, I prefer the Vanguard.

Weep holes (when they are indicative of a pocket sill) are a bad thing.


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 Post subject: Re: Need help replacing my windows in Tennesee
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:54 am 
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Location: Milwaukee, Madison areas
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beedee2 wrote:
The R-factor is from the manufacturer's sales brochure, not from the sales guy. It's also on the web site: http://verdewindowsanddoors.com/green_features.html.
All of the ratings that I posted are from the same sources. I may be misunderstanding what I read and will let you verify. Again, the sales guy did not give me this info.

One thing I failed to mention earlier is the Verde's absence of weep holes. Is this considered to be a plus? Also, is 10% to upgrade for the Vanguard something you might go for?

Gotcha. Just know that the 7.14 is not referring to the R-value of the entire window assembly, and should be taken with a major grain of salt. In fact, I'd say that it is utterly irrelevant, as is much of what you will find in sales literature from any manufacturer. The total unit u value is the primary number that you are looking for. A .28 converts to an R value of about 3.6. As long as your sales guy is upfront about all of that, then you should be in good shape and you can disregard my previous comments.
On the product choices, I agree with WoW. I like the Vanguard the best, followed by the Verde and then the Gorell. Also as he mentioned, you do want windows with a welded sloped sill for moisture drainage as opposed to a pocket sill with weep holes. That style is unavoidable for the most part in sliders, but not double hungs.


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 Post subject: Re: Need help replacing my windows in Tennesee
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:22 am 

Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:57 pm
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After reading the material again, I did misunderstand the info presented in the window brochure. It's not the Verde window that the R-factor is referring to, but the material used in the in their frames. Take that as a lesson learned when reading all the technical "horn-tooting' by any and all window makers!


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 Post subject: Re: Need help replacing my windows in Tennesee
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 2:52 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:14 pm
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Location: Milwaukee, Madison areas
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beedee2 wrote:
Take that as a lesson learned when reading all the technical "horn-tooting' by any and all window makers!

Excellent advice to all consumers :!:


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 Post subject: Re: Need help replacing my windows in Tennesee
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 2:58 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:14 pm
Posts: 411
Location: New Jersey Window Pro- Northern NJ and Central NJ
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i believe you can get the gorell 5300 with sash reinforcement if you request it. its a solid window when ordered with " super spacer".
for sunrise, i would opt for the vanguard over the Verde simply because the Verde has no sash reinforcement. reinforcement in only one sash is fine for deflection.


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 Post subject: Re: Need help replacing my windows in Tennesee
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:53 pm 

Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:57 pm
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Update# 4:

Based on the advise given here and my reading much, much info about the Gordell 5300, the Sunrise Verde, and the Sunrise Vanguard, I decided that the Vanguard was the window that best fit my needs. Except for the little matter of a 10% up-charge. But happily, after a heart to heart discussion with the Sunrise dealer, we were able to get the up-charge down to 3%. And that gave me the "warm & fuzzy feeling" I needed to finalize a deal. So now I have a Sunrise Vanguard with the Ultra-Plus 12 Glass Pack, (with SolarClean Self-Cleaning Glass) at a price I can afford (see earlier comment regarding Verde estimate). What more could I ask for? Well, maybe a perfect installation! We'll see......

Thanks to all who provided advise & comments.

(Maybe one more update after job is complete in late April early May)


Last edited by beedee2 on Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Need help replacing my windows in Tennesee
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:08 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:14 pm
Posts: 1893
Location: Milwaukee, Madison areas
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Excellent. Sounds that that worked out very well... Please do post back after the install! :D


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 Post subject: Re: Need help replacing my windows in Tennesee
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:43 pm 

Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2005 11:27 am
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Location: Texas - Houston & Austin
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Nice job on patiently working through the options to get the right window for your home and your budget. It will pay dividends for many years to come.


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 Post subject: Re: Need help replacing my windows in Tennesee
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:13 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:15 pm
Posts: 7
Location: Clovis, California
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The Interlock may not make a difference in how the Double Hung Window seals, however if you show me a Double Hung Window without it I can show you a Security Issue.

I used to deal with Certainteed's Devon Double Hung Windows and I could bypass the dual cam locks as well as the dual vent stops and have that window open in less than 45 seconds from the outside.

An Interlock on both DH and XX gliders adds Security!


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 Post subject: Re: Need help replacing my windows in Tennesee
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:12 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:32 pm
Posts: 649
Location: Delaware, New Jersey, Philadephia Area
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There is a world of difference between and Devon and a Sunrise DH. I wouldn't install a Devon in a shotgun shack or doghouse. Total garbage! For a shady criminal to know the anatomy of a vinyl window in order to dissect the sash meeting rail sweep lock tie in with hundreds if not thousands of manufacturers out there is quite a stretch. All of us industry insiders could pick apart just about all pros and cons of every manufacturer out there if we really wanted to.


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 Post subject: Re: Need help replacing my windows in Tennesee
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:53 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:14 pm
Posts: 1893
Location: Milwaukee, Madison areas
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I'm gonna have to agree with Mike here. While I do prefer an interlock for several reasons, I'm always going to choose the product that has superior engineering and performance, and in this case, the Vanguard is the clear winner.
I'd also agree on the security issue. Pretty much zero chance that a burglar is going to break in in that manner.


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 Post subject: Re: Need help replacing my windows in Tennesee
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:28 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:32 pm
Posts: 649
Location: Delaware, New Jersey, Philadephia Area
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Just to be clear on interlocks, five other manufacturers that I install all have interlocks and I have no problems with them. If I were designing a window from the ground up, I would most likely implement an interlock in to the meeting rail system. In the case of the original poster regarding this thread I feel his/her Vanguard purchase is a "home run." Very nice window in deed.


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