Stucco flange on siding--installation help please

For those self-installers
Message
Author
selfinstaller
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:40 pm

Stucco flange on siding--installation help please

#1 Post by selfinstaller » Thu Mar 07, 2013 7:45 pm

First of all, I'd like to thank the experts here for their advice they gave me on the other board about replacement windows last year. Unfortunately I ran out of summer to finish the project, but I kept your comments in mind over the winter and as a result I will soon be the owner of no fewer than 26 new Simonton 7300 windows. So thanks again. The insights were truly helpful.

It's now time to think about the install. I live in SE Idaho and my house was built in the 80s. It seems it was standard practice at the time to install aluminum frame windows with the frames protruding from the siding by about .75 inches. The windows on the front of my house were framed out by wood trim, but the ones in back were not (photos attached). So they just sit there, probably conducting cold straight into the house. The upshot is they should be easy to remove without affecting the siding at all. As far as I can tell they are only held in by screws that have been drilled through the outside of the studs.

So my question is this. Once I have removed the old frames, would it be better to install with the flange over the siding? Or should I cut the flange down a bit and install it inside the existing hole? The latter option would basically mean mounting the new windows exactly where the existing ones are (although with no protrusion!). I spoke with one installer who seemed to prefer the second option, but I would love to hear the ideas of other professionals out there. Thanks in advance. Oh and if there are any tips about removing the old frames, I'd love to hear these too.
Attachments
008.1.jpg
(149.22 KiB) Downloaded 838 times
007.1.jpg
(148.6 KiB) Downloaded 842 times

User avatar
Windows on Washington
Posts: 4426
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:21 pm
Location: DC Metropolitan Area-Maryland/Virginia/DC
Contact:

Re: Stucco flange on siding--installation help please

#2 Post by Windows on Washington » Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:41 am

If it were me personally, I would cut the siding back to the same reveal as in the front where the wood trim is, install a full nailing flange window with proper flashing/drip cap/etc, and trim out with and inorganic trim.

selfinstaller
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:40 pm

Re: Stucco flange on siding--installation help please

#3 Post by selfinstaller » Fri Mar 08, 2013 7:29 pm

Thanks for the reply, Windows on Washington. I think I didn't explain well enough. The front windows were installed in the same way. They just had the wood trim butted up against the edges of the aluminum frames.

That said, I can understand your thinking behind cutting back the siding and installing with a nailing flange. However, I have already ordered the windows with a stucco flange. I suppose I could still install these like new construction windows, but wouldn't this be unnecessarily disruptive? Besides I'd feel more comfortable not trying to patch up the siding after the install. Are there good reasons for not opting for the retrofit approach?

User avatar
Windows on Washington
Posts: 4426
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:21 pm
Location: DC Metropolitan Area-Maryland/Virginia/DC
Contact:

Re: Stucco flange on siding--installation help please

#4 Post by Windows on Washington » Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:40 am

Stucco flanges are fine. If the siding is clap board style, you are just going to have some heavy caulk beads on the sides and to accommodate the slope of the clap board.

There is no patching of the siding in my theorized install either. Just new trim.

selfinstaller
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:40 pm

Re: Stucco flange on siding--installation help please

#5 Post by selfinstaller » Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:48 pm

Thanks, Windows on Washington. I have what looks like a kind of faux clapboard siding. There are grooves but they're not too severe. In any case, though, it sounds to me like we are describing the same basic approach but with a difference. I was suggesting the fin be trimmed to fit the opening, but it sounds like you are in favor of cutting the siding to fit the fin. If I'm correct, is there an advantage to not trimming the fin? Of course I suppose it depends in part on how much mounting space I have once the existing windows are removed. I think it will be 3/4 of an inch all around.

User avatar
Windows on Washington
Posts: 4426
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:21 pm
Location: DC Metropolitan Area-Maryland/Virginia/DC
Contact:

Re: Stucco flange on siding--installation help please

#6 Post by Windows on Washington » Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:20 pm

It is probably easier to get a straight cut on the siding than it would be to rip the fin straight.

If the siding and current wood trim is of a standard size, go with that and cut the fin back.

Use whatever methodology will net you the least cutting work.

selfinstaller
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:40 pm

Re: Stucco flange on siding--installation help please

#7 Post by selfinstaller » Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:38 pm

Thanks again for the response. If I could trouble you with one more question, what is the minimum width for the stucco flange you would feel comfortable with? I had said that the cut back on the siding appeared to be 3/4 around the current windows but this was an estimate. I don't think I'll know for sure until I remove the current windows. Thanks in advance.

User avatar
Windows on Washington
Posts: 4426
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:21 pm
Location: DC Metropolitan Area-Maryland/Virginia/DC
Contact:

Re: Stucco flange on siding--installation help please

#8 Post by Windows on Washington » Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:00 am

0.75" is a bit on the nubbins side of a flange but if it is sealed properly, it will work.

The benefit to a larger flange is that it provides a bit more structure and also gives you more off a fudge factor when you put it in.

selfinstaller
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:40 pm

Re: Stucco flange on siding--installation help please

#9 Post by selfinstaller » Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:26 pm

Thanks, WoW. I think I'll pop off one of the windows and then decide on the best course of action. I know I said I had one more question, but if you don't mind I'd like to ask one more one more question. I saw the comments on the other topic about expanding foam. I've used the GS foam and it's not easy to work with. DAP seems a little better in terms of user friendliness. I saw that you and many of the other installers recommend the OSI TEQ stuff, but as far as I know this can only be applied with a gun. Given that I have so many windows and I'd like to do the job as well as I can, is it worth buying a gun for just this job?

User avatar
Delaware Mike
Posts: 861
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:32 pm
Location: Delaware, New Jersey, Philadephia Area

Re: Stucco flange on siding--installation help please

#10 Post by Delaware Mike » Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:44 pm

Do yourself a favor a purchase a pro gun, you will find ways to use it in the future being a homeowner. Even the cheapest of the guns is a thousand times better than the cans and straws. I've personally found the Hilti guns to be the best and one can find them on eBay new or in very good used condition. A good generic gun will run around $40 to $60 while the Hilti can range from $80 to $120.

User avatar
Windows on Washington
Posts: 4426
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:21 pm
Location: DC Metropolitan Area-Maryland/Virginia/DC
Contact:

Re: Stucco flange on siding--installation help please

#11 Post by Windows on Washington » Fri Mar 15, 2013 6:24 am

+1

Get a gun and don't look back. If you want to email me, I can direct you to where you can get them pretty cheaply.

selfinstaller
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:40 pm

Re: Stucco flange on siding--installation help please

#12 Post by selfinstaller » Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:13 am

Thanks, guys. A gun it is then. WoW, I will indeed email you to find out more about purchasing. Erm... how do I do that? Should I submit a request form on your company's website?

User avatar
Windows on Washington
Posts: 4426
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:21 pm
Location: DC Metropolitan Area-Maryland/Virginia/DC
Contact:

Re: Stucco flange on siding--installation help please

#13 Post by Windows on Washington » Sat Mar 16, 2013 6:53 am

That is probably best and reference me (Eric).

selfinstaller
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:40 pm

Re: Stucco flange on siding--installation help please

#14 Post by selfinstaller » Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:55 pm

WoW (and others),

I was out of town and just got back a couple of days ago, so I just now managed to send the message through your company. Since I think it might be of use to others I thought I'd also ask here on the forum how many cans of foam are typically needed per window. Most of mine are replacing 2050s or 3050s. I figure I should know this in advance since I can't just run down to the local BB stores for the OSI stuff if I run out midway through the job. Thanks.

User avatar
Windows on Washington
Posts: 4426
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:21 pm
Location: DC Metropolitan Area-Maryland/Virginia/DC
Contact:

Re: Stucco flange on siding--installation help please

#15 Post by Windows on Washington » Fri Mar 22, 2013 8:07 am

Feel free to re-send the message as my email looks like a bomb went off in it. I have not been very productive this week for several reasons.

Depending on how tight the windows are set, you can get up to 10 normal size windows out of 1 can of foam. If the gaps are larger, figure on less yield.

Post Reply