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 Post subject: Re: Home Craftsman Windows Dallas, TX
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:10 am 

Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2005 11:27 am
Posts: 826
Location: Texas - Houston & Austin
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The downside of the brand mentioned isn't the glass, it's the rest of the window. I repeat what I've said multiple times here; avoid the window and save yourself some headaches down the road. There are much better options for Texas homeowners.


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 Post subject: Re: Home Craftsman Windows Dallas, TX
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:47 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:14 pm
Posts: 1833
Location: Milwaukee, Madison areas
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I can't comment on the quality of the window itself having no experience with it, however there are really only a handful of glass companies out there that the vast majority of the window manufacturers use. Thus, there are plenty of products out there that fail miserably despite the fact that they have a good glass package. I'd imagine that this is especially pertinent in an extreme climate like TX.... Not only was it a shameless plug, it wasn't even relevant. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Home Craftsman Windows Dallas, TX
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:16 am 

Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:14 pm
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Location: New Jersey Window Pro- Northern NJ and Central NJ
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The Home Craftsman window is designed very poorly. There are really 4 glass companies so saying the glass is good isn't impressive; virtually everyone uses lowE. The real test is the design and engineering of the window which will ensure energy efficiency, beauty, and long term durability. Unfortunately, Home Craftsman doesn't meet this criteria.


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 Post subject: Re: Home Craftsman Windows Dallas, TX
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 4:45 pm 

Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2013 4:16 pm
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I would like to know specifically what the problem is with Home Craftsman. Wonderful World in Houston has recommended these windows and has installed these windows in many homes in my area in Houston. If you could be more specific as to what design/construction advantages over Home Craftsman or what is inferior about the Home Craftsman Window in its design/construction which uses high quality Cardinal Glass. Also, what other vinyl window makers would you consider acceptable?

Does anyone else have any experience with Wonderful World or Home Craftsman windows.

Just saying it is poor quality is not enough of an explanation. This is just opinion and really doesn't provide any information.

Any help would be appreciated.


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 Post subject: Re: Home Craftsman Windows Dallas, TX
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 10:30 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:14 pm
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Location: Milwaukee, Madison areas
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Bernard, as I mentioned in my previous comment, I am not personally familiar with the window. That said, the best, most objective and unbiased way to compare windows would be to look at the independently thermal and structural performance ratings. These would include U value, SHGC, Air infiltration, and design pressure. These ratings will give you a very good idea of how the window will perform, and also give a great indication of the quality of the design and construction of the unit. The structural ratings are particularly important in an extreme climate like TX... One could spend hours describing the differences in vinyl composition, outer wall thickness, glass spacer systems etc, and while all of those items are indeed relevant, the ratings essentially provide a cliff notes version. :D


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 Post subject: Re: Home Craftsman Windows Dallas, TX
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 3:57 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:21 pm
Posts: 3658
Location: DC Metropolitan Area-Maryland/Virginia/DC
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Will they give you the structural test report? If so, post up a copy and we will be happy to help you noodle through the terminology and data contained there in.


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 Post subject: Re: Home Craftsman Windows Dallas, TX
PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 7:27 am 

Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2005 11:27 am
Posts: 826
Location: Texas - Houston & Austin
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Pocket sill, thin vinyl walls combined with large hollow chambers, high air leakage rating, loose construction tolerances. I know the company mentioned sells a lot of these windows all over Houston. People buy them because they're cheap and they offer narrow frames and more glass space. They never see a cut-a-way of the window, and since the new window is so much better than what they had before, they're happy for a while. We'll see how content many of these homeowners are down the road when the pocket sill causes mildew to grow, and when the vinyl begins to bow and sag because it's so thin and poorly designed.

Vinyl siding was once popular in Houston, and if you had spoken with a homeowner who had purchased it within the first five years, chances are they would have been happy with it. But how much vinyl siding is being installed today in Houston? Not much at all, as Hardiplank dominates here because the effects of the extreme heat here became apparent on vinyl over time. The same thing is true of flimsy vinyl windows. It will take some time, but eventually the truth will become evident. Since Houston homeowners very rarely open their windows, they usually don't notice issues until they become very obvious.

If the Home Craftsman window is so wonderful, why is the company mentioned in the process of switching to Burris Windows?


Last edited by randy on Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:56 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Home Craftsman Windows Dallas, TX
PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 7:50 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:21 pm
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Location: DC Metropolitan Area-Maryland/Virginia/DC
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Image

Not sure why it won't pull through to the page.


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 Post subject: Re: Home Craftsman Windows Dallas, TX
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:42 pm 

Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2013 4:16 pm
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I appreciate the comments about vinyl windows. What do you think about the so-called composites offered by Renewal by Anderson & by Gulf Coast Windows. The composites I have looked at and put my hands on appear to be much stronger but I don't know how they will maintain their strength on a Southwestern Exposure at 150F even though they swear they will do much better then vinyl.. Do they have any better characteristics regarding structural strength & corrosion resistance compared to vinyl & aluminum. Houston like anywhere along the Gulf Coast is a tough environment for windows with high summer temperatures, high humidity, possible hurricanes with high winds & blowing rain. Also, soil around here shifts and houses can settle putting stress on windows so they need to be structural strong.

If neither vinyl or composite can take this environment and have a long life, what energy efficient double pane, low e aluminum windows should I consider for this environment? What are the top aluminum window manufacturers? I was also considering impact glass for some of the lower rooms for safety and to provide some possible hurricane protection. I'm just skeptical whether any vinyl or composite window will stand the test of time of say 20 years in these conditions. I don't want to install something I will be replacing in 3 to 5 years.

What's funny is that as I understand it, almost everyone is installing vinyl windows and in top quality homes as fare as I know. I know several people who have installed windows recently, and they have all installed vinyl. Maybe I'm just too skeptical?


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 Post subject: Re: Home Craftsman Windows Dallas, TX
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 6:29 am 
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There is no reason that well engineered vinyl and/or composite cannot handle the heat of Texas.

That being said, I would look at the DP numbers and I think you will quickly rule out the RBA unit.


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 Post subject: Re: Home Craftsman Windows Dallas, TX
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 7:23 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:14 pm
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Location: Milwaukee, Madison areas
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+2. Vinyl can be extremely durable, it just needs to be a well engineered, structurally sound product to fare well in your location. As wow mentioned, pay close attention to dp ratings.


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 Post subject: Re: Home Craftsman Windows Dallas, TX
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:16 am 

Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2005 11:27 am
Posts: 826
Location: Texas - Houston & Austin
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While I don't disagree with Windows on Washington and HomeSealed, the problem is that there are very few well engineered and structurally sound vinyl windows offered in Texas. The vast majority of the vinyl windows sold here are junk, with low DP ratings, high AI ratings, and flimsy frames. Just like vinyl siding has been replaced with Hardiplank, I believe that many of the vinyl windows being sold in Texas today will have to be replaced again with better built vinyl, composites, or thermally-broken aluminum.

Bernard, your skepticism is well founded, and will serve you well. Vinyl windows can be a good option here, if they are well reinforced with aluminum or fiberglass, or a composite. material The reinforcement should be shaped to fit the profile to prevent bowing, not just loosely inserted - and the more reinforcement the better. Avoid pocket sills as they collect gunk and can leak water to the interior. SHGC should be in the .19 - .23 range, and keep the AI rating as low as possible.

Thermally-broken aluminum should also be considered as it provides many benefits in our environment, and Don Young makes a good one. NT makes one as well, but it's higher priced. Those are the only two that I would recommend.

Renewal by Andersen is a good looking window, but not a performer at all. All hat and no cattle as we say in Texas.


Last edited by randy on Mon Jun 17, 2013 11:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Home Craftsman Windows Dallas, TX
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 10:36 am 

Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2013 4:16 pm
Posts: 3
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What do you think of the Burris AC Tech View Vinyl windows? Are the Burris windows structurally sound? Are they a good wndow for the Houston climate?

What about the NT 34 Alenco Twinsulator aluminum windows? I saw where you include the NT window in the list of recommendations.

I'm trying to locate the NHRC and DP ratings on these windows.

I think I see these windows listed on the Texas Website which is a good.

Also, what does Randy mean "high NI rating". I assume he means most vinyl windows have a high NL(leakage rating).


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 Post subject: Re: Home Craftsman Windows Dallas, TX
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 11:15 am 

Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2005 11:27 am
Posts: 826
Location: Texas - Houston & Austin
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The Burris window hasn't been around long enough for me to form an opinion of it. If I'm not mistaken, it's only been around for three to five years, and I would want to see a longer track record before I recommend it.

The NT Twinsulator is a decent choice.


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