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 Post subject: Dazed and confused on replacing windows...Help
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:47 am 

Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:25 am
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I never thought replacing windows could cause so much confusion and uncertainty. Every person I’ve talked to has a different opinion and it’s very hard to determine what is the proper course of action for us to take. Hopefully, I can get some direction and affirmation from you experts. We plan on staying in our house long term, 20 plus years, and I’ve researched enough to be confident in the Sof-Lite Imperial LS, Okna 700 Super Deluxe triple pane (I’m getting the triple for the price of the double), and Sunrise (not sure the number) as far as vinyl goes. I was hoping to finalize my decision by weeks end BUT I spoke to someone this morning who brought up some points I’d like clarification on. We live in Minnesota so there is lot of variations in our weather. We see 20 below to nearly 100 degrees every year.

1. From a cost standpoint we hoped to be able to insert our replacement windows, assuming the frames were ok. Will properly installed inserts stand the test of time or should we consider full replacement.
2. Are the 3 vinyl choices listed above considered good long term candidates. The fella I talked to said the expansion and contraction of vinyl effects the efficiency over time and sometimes the integrity of the window itself. In short, though vinyl wins in efficiency out of the factory wood and fiberglass win the long term battle for both longevity and efficiency.
3. I don’t like the idea of maintaining wood windows nor do I like the cost so fiberglass seems like a viable option. I haven’t seen the Marvin Integrity All Ultrex in person but a web search did not give me warm and fuzzy feelings about it. What are your thoughts on Marvin’s All Ultrex taking into account our situation.

Bottom line is we want to do this right the first time so it’s the only time and are more than willing to spend more money to get it right. However, the difficulty has been that everyone has a different opinion on what is right. I was all about the above vinyl choices but am now less certain about them for OUR solution.

Thanks

Window Rookie


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 Post subject: Re: Dazed and confused on replacing windows...Help
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:46 pm 
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Location: DC Metropolitan Area-Maryland/Virginia/DC
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What type of windows do you have currently in terms of operator styles.

1. Inserts will work just fine and that is a proven window application.

2. Not true. There is no evidence to support this assertion that well engineered vinyl (i.e. good mil thicknesses, multi-chambered, etc) is any less efficient over time.

3. The Integrity is a nice window but the "prettyness" of it is questionable in the all Ultrex variant. The wood/Ultrex combo is much better looking.

If you are okay with the look of vinyl, you can't beat the price in this case and the performance of those units you mentioned is second to none.


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 Post subject: Re: Dazed and confused on replacing windows...Help
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:41 pm 

Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:25 am
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Thanks for the info, that makes me feel better. Casement is the type of window we have now and what we are going with for replacements.


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 Post subject: Re: Dazed and confused on replacing windows...Help
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:35 pm 
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All of those brand's casements are over engineered so there is no issue there.

You may find that full tear outs might be more preferred for glass loss or if you have some twin and triple units but you are 100% fine with a vinyl application.


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 Post subject: Re: Dazed and confused on replacing windows...Help
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:59 pm 

Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 5:52 pm
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+1
Good vinyl is good, cheap vinyl is bad.
InLine fiberglass are vey good, but expensive, I find it normally $250 more per window.

theWindowNerd.com


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 Post subject: Re: Dazed and confused on replacing windows...Help
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:44 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:14 pm
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Location: New Jersey Window Pro- Northern NJ and Central NJ
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I say this all all the time, glass is sealed before its set in the vinyl frame, expansion and contraction of a frame CANNOT pull glass from its sealed state. Further, whether its wet glazed or dry glazed, both methods are designed to handle a certain amount of expansion and contraction anyway. This is a myth perpetuated by fiberglass wi dow salesman as well as RBA salesman.


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 Post subject: Re: Dazed and confused on replacing windows...Help
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 3:09 pm 

Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:25 am
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Good stuff, thanks guys. I'll be looking at Okna and Sunrise early next week and make my decision.


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 Post subject: Re: Dazed and confused on replacing windows...Help
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 3:14 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:14 pm
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Location: Milwaukee, Madison areas
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Good choices. Those are probably my two favorite casement models. :D


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 Post subject: Re: Dazed and confused on replacing windows...Help
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 7:52 pm 

Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 7:11 am
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Casement windows don't accept inserts as well as most double hungs. The frame will need to be jumped and a "pocket" created by adding exterior stops and a new interior stop as well.make sure you know how much it will trimmed inside and out.there are a lot of windows that make poor candidates for a frame jump, usually the newer the window the poorer candidate it makes. A full frame is a usually the superior option with casements


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 Post subject: Re: Dazed and confused on replacing windows...Help
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 5:58 am 

Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 5:52 pm
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I would not consider a vinyl casement inserted into a wood frame a frame jump.
Hopefully the sash stops are removable to max the size of the insert. Or your contractor could chop out the stop if needed. You would not need exterior stops if capping the frames.
As mention a full tear/full frame replacement could be a good option for ya.

theWindowNerd...


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 Post subject: Re: Dazed and confused on replacing windows...Help
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:59 am 
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anthony wrote:
I would not consider a vinyl casement inserted into a wood frame a frame jump.
Hopefully the sash stops are removable to max the size of the insert. Or your contractor could chop out the stop if needed. You would not need exterior stops if capping the frames.
As mention a full tear/full frame replacement could be a good option for ya.

theWindowNerd...

+1. A casement insert is no more of a frame jump than a dh. The only difference is that the interior stops are removed and replaced due to their size and shape, typically with a shoe or cove moulding. The stops are "jumped" in very few cases when they are milled, but even then they could be cut off as an alternative.
A full frame is a superior install in any situation, the question is always whether or not the added benefits outweigh the substantial cost premium. That will vary by project .


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 Post subject: Re: Dazed and confused on replacing windows...Help
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 1:45 am 

Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 7:11 am
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Ok , Let's not call it a frame jump. I do install a lot of windows into casement frames insert style, but quite often with casements they don't make a good candidates for this due to funky sills, aluminum frames and mulls being moved. I would also would put a tapered sill/shim if the sill is flat and would install exterior stops whether wrapped or not.Most casements also have ranch casing which is inexpensive to replace.


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 Post subject: Re: Dazed and confused on replacing windows...Help
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 8:50 am 
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Image


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 Post subject: Re: Dazed and confused on replacing windows...Help
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:29 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:14 pm
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Location: Milwaukee, Madison areas
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toddinmn wrote:
Ok , Let's not call it a frame jump. I do install a lot of windows into casement frames insert style, but quite often with casements they don't make a good candidates for this due to funky sills, aluminum frames and mulls being moved. I would also would put a tapered sill/shim if the sill is flat and would install exterior stops whether wrapped or not.Most casements also have ranch casing which is inexpensive to replace.

I don't find any of those points to be much of a problem, but certainly it is wise to weigh the pros and cons of insert vs full frame on an individual job by job basis. I would agree that it is a bit more technical than a typical DH insert. Not a first time DIY type of project to be sure.
The ranch casing must be a MN thing. Around here we see mostly oak colonial, even in ranch style homes.


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 Post subject: Re: Dazed and confused on replacing windows...Help
PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 4:00 pm 

Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:25 am
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Ok, we have decided to go with Okna windows and have the option to upgrade to triple pane with argon for about 7.5% more money, $1172 total. In general what does it cost to upgrade to triple pane? It seems like it's worth it to me but my wife thinks they may be darker than she would like. Would you guys recommend upgrading to triple?

Thanks

The WR


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