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 Post subject: Need help finding a good quality sliding door
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 6:09 am 

Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2017 5:49 am
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Im located in central fl and the 60"x80" sliding patio door in question gets direct sunlight in afternoon....pretty brutal.

Looking to replace the original builder door with something that meets new energy star star requirements with built in blinds but i cant seem to find any. If i add blinds the shgc specs on the door seems to shoot up to near .4 on most models i looked at.

The only company i found so far that says they have one is Father and Son and it was a Neuma door. It was a good $1000-$1500 more than everything else ive looked at so far so im not sure that is really worth the difference in cost (not a budget issue). Im not confident that it really is because i have had more than one company already tell me a door is energy star but when i look up online it clearly states w/ blinds it doesnt meet requirements.

Id really like to have the blinds but if it cant be done im going to go with something without blinds. Anyone know of anything that will fit the bill?

I have spoke with window world (not sure on what the brand they use), i have also spoke with a couple local window companies (PGT) but most of those are saying like 3-4 month lead time (without blinds) which seems high(?). Check lowes/hd but wasnt really thrilled with there options.

I did find an option from a local building supplier that, at least on paper, seems like it could be a nice option. Its a novatech 370 (and 301) model i was looking at.

http://www.groupenovatech.com/en-us/pro ... s/370.html

Couldnt find much about them online but it appears there are a few other companies that have the same door such as Alantech. Anyone know anything about these?

Can anyone point me to some decent options in cfl?


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 Post subject: Re: Need help finding a good quality sliding door
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:05 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:21 pm
Posts: 4349
Location: DC Metropolitan Area-Maryland/Virginia/DC
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PGT is 3-4 months out? Wow.

That door that you posted the link for look attractive but I don't see any real data on it. I would love to know what the PG/DP are as well as the air infiltration and thermal values.


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 Post subject: Re: Need help finding a good quality sliding door
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:28 am 

Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2017 5:49 am
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Im waiting for the supplier to get me the extra specs i requested on the 370 door, i'll post up when i get them. He's telling me its energy star with blinds but im pretty sure its nots not based on some other data i found on some sites that sell the same door with different name. Did you look at the brochure under the "options" menu on the page? It lists:
Structure: DP-50
Overall: PG-R50
Air Tightness: A3

Not sure if thats what your looking for?

Im not sure if the 3-4 months was for pgt, thats what the contractor im using for front door install said they probably are. They were from the window stores i called. I heard that and pretty much didnt ask any more because thats too long. It seemed all the window stores were saying really long leads except for Window World, 2 weeks.

Evidently im learning sliding doors are primarly sold thru window shops ....not very many building suppliers (at least the ones i shopped for front entry door) around here even sell them apparently.


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 Post subject: Re: Need help finding a good quality sliding door
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 4:58 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2017 5:49 am
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Ok so im guessing im pretty much giving up on blinds as i dont see any viable options in my numerous callings today.

Im a rookie on this window searching and feel like i need a shower after talking to most of the dealers :)

Can someone help point me towards a good product in my area (orlando/daytona) for a good door? The companies i see mentioned on here quite often i havent been able to find in my area unless im missing them (okna, soft-lite, himark).

I keep getting MI window recommended by some but i have heard mixed reviews.

What would you guys be looking for in my area?

Side note, i will be starting a window search in the near future as well once i get done with my other projects but it probably wont be till after the new year based on the rate they are going. So suggestions on them i will pocket and keep ready as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Need help finding a good quality sliding door
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 5:07 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:14 pm
Posts: 2350
Location: Milwaukee, Madison areas
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Softlite has a presence in that area according to a google search. You could also contact them directly and ask for a dealer referral. They would be a good option that will have a nice window line as well when you get to that point. Okna, Himark, and Sunrise are not available down there to my knowledge. Provia might be, their sliding door is nice and their new window line is fairly decent as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Need help finding a good quality sliding door
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:45 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:32 pm
Posts: 849
Location: Delaware, New Jersey, Philadephia Area
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I'd get a ProVia Endure or Aspect slider optioned with blinds and tinted glass. The tint knocks down the SHG if you need the blinds open during direct exposure to sun and with the blinds closed plus the tint, you're basically looking at Dracula's coffin in regards to how much light comes through. If they don't have DOE ENERGY STAR test results of their door optioned with blinds who cares, the end result is what you're looking for.


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 Post subject: Re: Need help finding a good quality sliding door
PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:09 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2017 5:49 am
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I found this listed on the brochures for both models from provia:

"Blinds with LowE on surface 2 & 4 are ENERGY STAR ® Certified nationwide."

Can someone help explain what that means as far what the surfaces are? Does this mean it needs to be triple-pane to coat surface 4? Wouldnt that be the interior side of the glass on double-paned?

Any idea on the cost of these suckers in 60x80? FAS comes up as a retailer but the sales rep told me the only thing they had was a neuma door when i called friday. Or are these more expensive than the neuma?


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 Post subject: Re: Need help finding a good quality sliding door
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 11:33 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:14 pm
Posts: 2350
Location: Milwaukee, Madison areas
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They are not triple pane, you cannot get blinds in glass from anyone with triple pane. Pella technically has three panes of glass, however it is not a sealed triple pane IGU.

As far as the surface 4, that does indeed refer to the interior glass surface on double pane. I'd avoid if you have any concerns whatsoever about interior condensation, however, that is a much greater concern in colder climates. It may be fine in your location.

As for dealers, call provia directly and ask for recommendations.


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 Post subject: Re: Need help finding a good quality sliding door
PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:29 am 

Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2017 5:49 am
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Is it common place for companies not to call you back in this industry? Or am I just getting the shaft because im only looking for a door and not the whole house?

I had a place in 20 mins from my house tell me they dont service that area, lol.

The provia dealers didnt even want to speak with me unless they could come to my house and do a survey for 60 mins, one free and the other was free if i replaced 3 or more windows. Greasy.

I got a quote from FAS for slider with blinds, called back spoke to someone different to get a quote without blinds, it was more expensive. WTF? Quote for PGT 5540 was $3K, is that excessive? I was thinking kingsroyal would be more link $2500-3000, is PGT that good?

Soft-Lite doesnt service here or one wanted to charge trip time (i can understand) but never called back either.

May end up saying f-it and just grabbing something from a building supply place just on a matter of principle. What a frikken pain in the arse.

Am i correct in thinking that the canadian ratings for AI = A3 means < .1 ?


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 Post subject: Re: Need help finding a good quality sliding door
PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:39 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:21 pm
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Location: DC Metropolitan Area-Maryland/Virginia/DC
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I am not sure about the last part with regards to what Al = A3.

I think folks are busy in the industry now and while that is no excuse for failing for follow up, it isn't a deliberative effort push people off. I know I am way behind here at my company and unintentionally dragging folks along.

The Kingsroyal is a nice door and by all accounts, PGT makes a nice product. I don't see a scenario where the non-blinds equip unit should be more. That just shouldn't happen. That must be a calculation or human contingent error.


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 Post subject: Re: Need help finding a good quality sliding door
PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:41 am 

Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2017 5:49 am
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Thanks WoW.

Well with another search i was able to find another actually more local PGT dealer that seems nice to deal with ... waiting on a quote. Probably looking at EnergyVue 5400 series by my research...someone yell at me if this is a bad move please :) 3-5 weeks which is right inline with what i was hoping for. I also figured out why the other pgt guy are 3-4 months but i probably shouldnt disclose that here :)

I did finally get a call back from Soft-lite area rep and found 1 dealer that would service my area. Must be new. Can not find a lick of info on him or company on the web other than he does have a contractors license and registered biz with the state. Kinda scared. Sucks as i really liked their options. Dont even know how to approach this as contractors in FL arent exactly known for being honest...even more so after the hurricanes.

Both came by and waiting final numbers .... im thinking i already know which direction i need to head based on what i stated above.

Does anyone have info on the PGT low-e glass types? I cant seem to find this anywhere. A supply house quoted me a slider with solarban xl 70 but i cant find a breakdown of which others they offer. Looks like PPG options. Want to make sure i select my best option. Also no AI numbers either but the rep said he could get them for me.

I'll probably try to do the front two windows as well since they get full sun first half of day and are the largest. I can probably swing the cost of these if its not ridiculous. Any upgrades i need to make sure i use with PGT? I will admit the brochures\site dont really list much so im kinda clueless of what upgrades they offer.


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 Post subject: Re: Need help finding a good quality sliding door
PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:29 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:21 pm
Posts: 4349
Location: DC Metropolitan Area-Maryland/Virginia/DC
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Solarban is a PPG product. They, along with Cardinal and Guardian, make the best residential glass in the industry. You can't go wrong with any of the 3.

You definitely want a SHGC that is 0.22 and below in your region and climate.


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 Post subject: Re: Need help finding a good quality sliding door
PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:51 pm 

Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2005 10:11 am
Posts: 441
Location: New Jersey
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The PGT 5470 is an excellent choice! From what I have seen it’s the strongest PVC patio door on the market, the Design Pressure rating is 60. PGT maintains a DP60 even in their multi panel multi track doors. We delivered a 8 panel 4 track center sliding door 384” x 94” to Long Island a few weeks ago that is the WinGuard Impact version of the door where each panel weighed 377 lbs. This door kept me up a night because I figured the there is no way this door will slide easily. The contractor reports the door can be operated with one finger.

This door was designed for high wind zones and hurricane impact when purchased as a Wind Guard vinyl door so if that is a concern this is a great door. If you are in an area where you experience a real winter and you do not have coastal requirements there are other great doors that perform better thermally.

If I ordered a door today in your size it would be on my truck September 19th , the lead time in Florida should be one week shorter.

PGT offers 3 types of Low-e glass in that door, the values listed below are with argon gas that is an option in the door

Energy Shield Low-e U.33 SHGC .27
Energy Shield Max Low-e U.32 SHGC .19
Solar Control Low-e U.33 SHGC .17

Options you may consider
Both panels can be operable (no additional charge)
Stainless steel rollers are a good investment
Exterior Key lock is not standard
The standard rolling screen is adequate but they have an option for a heavy duty rolling screen that they call box screen


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 Post subject: Re: Need help finding a good quality sliding door
PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:18 am 

Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2017 5:49 am
Posts: 8
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Thanks bill

The DP is nice as im only about 25 miles inland. Been thru 4 or 5 hurricanes since ive lived here now (wow im starting to lose track). I was s-ing my pants last year when matthew came right at us.....wasnt really looking forward to cat4 after seeing what andrew did to miami area. Id love impact but cant really justify the cost seeing as the glass will still need replaced anyways, i'll put those funds to upgrade shutter/panel system once finished.

Id love that upgraded screen but the rep told me it requires a frame extension that would take it to around 8". If that is true then its a little too big at that point. Im barely going to be able to fit the standard size one in as its bigger than average, might actually require a little work inside. Im gonna rip up a tile and check the where the concrete raises back up to make sure i have space.

I had a company that offered a cash and carry on the door when i called a couple days back berfore i really looked at pgt and said it was ~$1200 for 5068. Does this sound right and reasonable? Just trying to judge how it looks when i see the estimate from the other dealer w/ install etc.. I understand people need to make a living (i own small biz myself) but i have also seen some other quotes already from different vendors that they are clearly trying to get greedy.


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 Post subject: Re: Need help finding a good quality sliding door
PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 5:43 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:21 pm
Posts: 4349
Location: DC Metropolitan Area-Maryland/Virginia/DC
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I grew up in Florida. We know how to do hurricanes down there to be certain.

I remember seeing this picture and chuckling a bit. Hurricanes and the damage (loss of life and property) aren't funny...but you have to chuckle at this a bit.

Image


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