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 Post subject: Shuco PAL Locks
PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 10:15 am 

Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2006 6:10 pm
Posts: 7
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I am getting Shuco windows installed and it comes with PAL locks standard without any additional cost. After reading the forum, I feel I should go for the stndard CAM locks. However there was one post here saying that Shuco has redesigned the PAL locks and works fine. Any suggestions ?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 2:07 pm 

Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 2:25 am
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The PAL locks look nice, but I personally wouldn't get them, because that is the only significant advantage in my mind, since they probably aren't going to be any more reliable than CAM locks. If you decide to get them, just make sure the materials and labor are covered under your warranty for as long as you plan to stay in the house, and you'll probably be happy with or without them. I don't know anything about the mentioned redesign of the Schuco PAL system.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 4:36 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:58 pm
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Location: Northern & Central Illinois, Chicago suburbs
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Schuco says they are fixed with the redesign, but since I am the who will be paying to send my guys out to adjust or replace them, I don't sell them.
The cam locks are great, ....why should I take the chance again and possibly have service calls?


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 Post subject: My Pal
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 7:28 pm 
We've been using the PAL locks from it's inception. Like any new innovation there were some kinks to be ironed out, thankfully they were few and with the improvements made, mostly to the internal mechanism, we have been installing them as a standard feature. The ONLY time we use the traditional cam lock is when we need to match existing windows for previous customers who are replacing more windows.

With regards to the PAL lock the Achilles’ heel lies with the installation. The applicators must insure a plumb fit at time of installation to avoid any misalignment with the precision of the PAL locks.

At the end of the day the benefit of the PAL locks outweighs any of the minor challenges the initial deign may have posed.

In the past decade there have been several attempts at improving locking systems, most notable Thermal Guard and Winchester Ind.'s Four point locking system. Much like Chrysler’s late 60’s concept of self-adjusting brakes for cars, these ideas worked on a theoretical level only. While lab results may produce a prototype that appears operable In vivo applications render them troublesome and a service nightmare. Again conventionally they are good only from a sales point of view.


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 Post subject: Reply
PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 5:47 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:43 pm
Posts: 353
Location: Illinois
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I stick with the cam locks. The primary purpose of any lock is to "secure". The Pal Locks secure verticle movement but the cam locks draw the sashes closer together at the meeting rail, providing a better airseal. This I know very well first hand and can prove. That being said, they are a very unique feature and I also provide them, but as an option.


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 Post subject: Flase
PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 12:00 pm 
Untrue:

The Cam lock does pull the sashes closer but this is rendered moot by the full interlocking meeting rail.

The PAL lock is your friend, hence it's name.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 2:31 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:58 pm
Posts: 1328
Location: Northern & Central Illinois, Chicago suburbs
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The PAL lock is no friend to anyone but a service man. The standard cam locks are 100% reliable.
It's silly to use a lock that has had and still has so many service issues.

.


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 Post subject: Re: Flase
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 12:57 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:43 pm
Posts: 353
Location: Illinois
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Paneless wrote:
Untrue:

The Cam lock does pull the sashes closer but this is rendered moot by the full interlocking meeting rail.

The PAL lock is your friend, hence it's name.



Paneless.. again... you are incorrect. The fin seals at the interlock work through surface pressure, just like the bulb seals on the bottom of the sash. The cam locks push up/down while also pulling the sashes together. The revision of the PAL locks included making the actual latch smaller, so it would engage easier, but that also reduced the surface friction of the seals even more. I have the ability to show air infiltration on a window unit, and even measure it if need be. The difference is nominal between the two, but it absolutely is present, and I just feel better about offering the cam locks. To each... their own.


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 Post subject: PAL Locks
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 2:30 pm 
After conferring with my installation department they would agree with you to a certain degree in that the PAL locks aren’t their choice mainly because they require more of a precise installation. They have to line up as there is little margin for error and aren’t as forgiving as the cam locks.

As I said, we’ve been using them for some time and other than the initial challenge we have had no other issues and the customers both request and so far value the PAL system.


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