Help me cut through the BS - please!

For all those Replacement Window questions
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#16 Post by windowrep » Sun Jun 19, 2005 10:22 pm

not too far from the truth
a little off on the facts
the reason some questions go unanswered is some people are not familiar with the certain windows that a person has a question on. and luckily for the consumers sake a reputable person will not give information or state facts that are "a little off" or "not that far from the truth" your right, i have stated many times personal opinions will always influence some peoples thinking but hopefully it will be backed by accurate information.

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#17 Post by Melissa » Mon Jun 20, 2005 1:02 pm

a) I can offer a window with Argon, it's just not needed in mild climates if the window is made well enough. I did not say Argon was useless, priod, just here in the bay area where a well made window suffices. 90% of our windows in the Pacific Northwest are sold with Argon because they do need it.

b) I was taught that PPG originated these technologies HERE IN THE US. I am not an idiot. I know people have been using glass in other countries for eons. For God's sake, give me a little credit. *sigh*

c) When I was a consumer, not a sales rep, I had 6 COMPANIES tell me they use Cardinal glass. All of them had their lowE coating on the inside pane of Cardinal glass and their exterior glass piece was by PPG. When they had Sunclean on the exterior and LowE2 on the inside piece, the Sunclean would fail. I have researched a TON of customer complaints about that. We've never had 1.

d) Just compare warantees. Simple. Period. No more to say. Go harrass someone else.


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#18 Post by HipKat » Mon Jun 20, 2005 4:09 pm

From one who has been there, Melissa, believe me, you are arguing with someone who may be as close to being the foremost authority on this industry that there is.
Believe me, you're in Sales, as am I, and this is one youy can't win.
Best to make Friends here.

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Wow, is she really in the Business?

#19 Post by BayCityWindows » Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:59 pm

Scary to think of all the uneducated "experts" giving out advice to people who actually own homes.
The thing people need to learn, is how to learn it themselves.
Unfortunately, contractors and manufactures are very sneaky when it comes to covering up their mistakes. You HAVE to be a detective or know someone who has had work from the chosen company.

Go with a company and product that is NOT NEW,

Ya know in Melissa's first post, if you didn't know any better, she actually sounds like she knows whats she's talking about, sheeesh!

who gives a rats *%$ about 4 frickin hundredths of a percent?
Does anyone here believe in northern california that ANY consumer will notice the difference in .24 to .30??? (I know it's not 4)
FenEx, is it possible to physically notice a difference?
does anyone do the heatlamp test?
Check a heatlamp through the window with a digital thermometer
the ratings vary from window to window, all windows from the same manufacture do not have the same ratings, but approximately.

Whats frustrating is having to guide consumers away from all the so-called experts offering advice only to get you to buy their windows.
Makes it hard for us stand-up companies just trying to provide good quality service at a fair price.
That is why we sell so many different brands of windows.
A good Window is only as good as it's Installation.

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#20 Post by Windows(SouthernCA) » Wed Aug 03, 2005 8:29 pm

Wanted to stire the pot with my post on virgin vinyl myth. Check it out!

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#21 Post by the002 » Wed Aug 03, 2005 9:17 pm

swiggle seal rocks!

::runs and hides::

To the original thread poster: You are at an advantage to most homeowners in that you have the ability, or initiative, to research online. This is your BEST way to tackle the myths that are out there. Most manufacturer brochures are built to sell their product model, not the product type itself.

I work inside sales for a growing window/door/siding/patio cover distributor, and the first thing I do is compile a list of useful websites followed by a warning of what this industry is all about. It's a tedious process, but in the end it is for the benefit of your own home, and lifestyle at that. The last thing you want is to NEED to replace your products 10 years down the line.

There are a lot of questions you will have, most of which revolve around the performance of the window. Is it worth it to pay $3000 more just so your home can be a constant 72 degrees instead of 76? Will 78 degrees cause you to waste more energy, and if not, then can't you save an additional $1500 on that decision?

I'm sure we'd all want the most perfect window with the most perfect spacer, and the most perfect glass. I sell Atrium, Amerimax, Eagle and Milgard (yuck, I know), and I'll be the first to admit that they aren't the best... but for the price we sell them it just might be worth it... why? Because not all homeowners are looking to satisfy the same climate, aesthetic, functional need.

For those of you in sales, do you keep a constant tab on your customers? Do any of them ever really report back that their temperature is not as cool as they thought it would be? There are a lot of homeowners out there that prefer looks over performance, or thermal performance over function/operation, etc. The best thing you can do as a homeowner is know your options, and figure out what you can do with/without and for what price.

I'm learning a lot by reading through this site as I'm sure you will too. It's a big industry with a boatload of liars.

Be educated, have faith in the product you buy, and enjoy your home.

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#22 Post by JScott » Thu Aug 04, 2005 7:58 pm

Hey, don't leave me out...

AFG is now producing TI-AC40 which does have a u of .24 with out argon, it has LowE on one side and their new coating on the other. Only 1 plant is in production and they are spending 33 or 39 million to get 7 more plants up and running. An edge deletion process is required and therefore new types of equipment. So I believe the technology is there.

Most engineers we have worked for really don't quite understand the real practical aspects of windows. My father actually told the CEO and main engineer of Rockwell Windows he needed to go back to school if he wanted to learn how to make a window that would last.

Lifetime warranty in OHIO by state law is 7 years, double lifetime there would be 14 years.

There are alot of good technical support for you here and on other chat sites, but you must learn 1 simple rule. None of us know it all. That is why we are here. To learn from others. Jump off your horse, park it outside and come on in.

My brother and law and sister in law recently moved from San Francisco. They had single pane aluminum windows. When I visited Milgard in Tacoma last year I found alot of aluminum as well. Did not see 1 aluminum window around the Kolby or the Lincoln plant. I will be at Gorell next Tuesday, lets see what they have in Pittsburg. Alot of wood at the Caradco plant in Ill.

You also mentioned wood was not a good insulator. You also never mentioned Fiberglass, Fibrex, Marley PVC, other composites and look to europe for solid bronze windows out of Italy. Up north they could make windows out of snow for all I know, snow is a great insulator.

Come here to enrich and enlighten and be enlightened grasshopper.

I am not writing this to offend. I myself was asked a while back to get a reality check. So I understand how you must feel. Pursue truth and be honest in your dealings with customers and it will always work out.

Don't feel horsewhipped, just initiated, like a fraternity(spell check?).

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#23 Post by HipKat » Sun Aug 07, 2005 1:09 pm

Actually, wood is a great insulator. I believe it has a BTU rate of like .001 or something like that....

It just has no longevity

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New info?? you got some?

#24 Post by JT » Mon Aug 08, 2005 10:46 pm

Don't mean to make excuses for an estimator, but defintely you should do some research before you meet one. Its always good to have some background..try NFRC, etc. and pick one that you like. Installation is almost as important as the windows that you pick. AAMA certified is the way to go.
BUt I love it when I show up at a house with someone who values my time, gas, and is ready with some info of their own...Heck, I've even looked up things at peoples houses...
Anyway, good luck..prices don't look too crazy that you saw..we come in comparable also.
Bay City

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#25 Post by Guy » Thu Aug 11, 2005 7:09 am

Well put JScott, 002 & BayCity. Now you know why I said on the second post of this thread that I knew nothing of the original choices and backed off. If you want education on glass then go to Tim Johnson's website and hunt down "Oberon". He's by far the "God of Glass" by any means. Arguing with FenX on statistics and anything else with the window industry is futile. He's probably one of the most educated experts in the field. Anyone who devotes as much free time to these boards to try and educate the general public with their concerns. Deserves a good old thank you! Even I learn from him daily and I've been around for 30 years. Thanks Mike, your the best!!!

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