Quantum 2

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MJB
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Quantum 2

#1 Post by MJB » Fri Sep 02, 2005 11:43 am

I have been reading on-line about the Quantum 2 windows. Apparently they fill the frame/sash with foam. Is that a big deal? They claim it makes a huge difference - R-12 in some cases.

Also, these windows have a layer of something between the panes they call a "heat mirror." Any thoughts on this?

Thanks for your comments.

MJB
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Location: Alexandria, VA

#2 Post by MJB » Tue Sep 06, 2005 4:38 pm

Anyone have any thoughts about the previous post? Thanks for the help!

HipKat
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#3 Post by HipKat » Tue Sep 06, 2005 7:34 pm

Heat mirror is an outdated technology, It's basically a thin film in between the panes of glass, and everyone I've ever seen had a "warped " look to it.

MJB
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#4 Post by MJB » Wed Sep 07, 2005 9:25 am

Thanks, HipKat. I appreciate your reply and all of the insight you provide on this board.

Do you have any thoughts about foam filled frams? Does that really make a difference?

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Window4U (IL)
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#5 Post by Window4U (IL) » Wed Sep 07, 2005 2:22 pm

No, it doesn't make any difference.
It's a salesman's tool to try and set the window apart from others. Look at the U-values from like windows with foam and without foam and you will see they are the same.

MJB
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#6 Post by MJB » Wed Sep 07, 2005 3:43 pm

Thanks for this insight - it is very helpful!

HipKat
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#7 Post by HipKat » Wed Sep 07, 2005 10:22 pm

The truth is that vinyl has the same insulative qualities as wood. The BTU rate for both is like .0o01 or something like that. The only thing good foam filled frames could have, if it's a resonated, hardened (poly) foam, is strength

MJB
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#8 Post by MJB » Fri Sep 09, 2005 9:19 am

Interesting. Thank you very much. This is helpful!

JScott
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#9 Post by JScott » Sat Sep 10, 2005 8:24 am

Hipcat,

I have seen 2 studies that show foam filling the frames and sashes do make a difference. One was for a vinyl product and one was for a fiberglass product. Both of these graphs presented were from manufacturers.

Do you know where I can view the data you are referring to. I also used to believe foam filling was bogus but when you actually think about it, we insulate our walls for increased efficiency as we know this improves a homes efficiency. The limited data reviewed makes me wonder.

Most people used to say triple pane was overkill. After installing triple pane and comparing the fuel data of 2 close friends/relatives I now believe this is a clear advantage.

Please help and thanks for your time.

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Window4U (IL)
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#10 Post by Window4U (IL) » Sat Sep 10, 2005 9:03 am

JScott... we are usually always on the same page, but on this I have to disagree. The NFRC data is just not there to show a significant difference between foam-filled and non-foam filled.
Let's take Thermal Industries for an example. Their foam filled window with double glaze, low-e and argon has a u-factor of .30
Without foam and with the same exact glass package it has a u-factor of .31
As you know, there is a virtually undectable difference in energy savings or comfort between those two u-factors.
There are truely important factors such as air-tightness, balance systems, and spacers to consider when choosing a window. Foam is not one of them in my opinion.

JScott
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#11 Post by JScott » Sat Sep 10, 2005 9:29 am

Window4U,
Thanks for your reply. We are on the same page. Foam filled is not and should not be used as a focus point.

My question reworded should have been:

Do I say to Mr. and Mrs. Customer
a. The foam filling that comes in the window is simply a marketing tactic so you will buy my window...
b. There is some technical data which may give a very minor difference...

With a couple of my mfg series it is there. They will not take it out just for me. On one line the sashes are poly foam injected and the frames can be for $4 per unit. We handle more lines than anyone in town, vinyl clad wood(1 mfg), aluminum clad wood(3 mfg), wood(3 mfg), fiberglass(1 mfg), vinyl(3 mfg).

If I pull out a corner sample of a 5305 Gorell or a Graef, your going to see foam.
c. They pump it in cause they have nothing else better to do...

Now, I hope you see my actual situation. No- I do not push it as a major benefit. Yes- I do say it may help and quickly go to the efficiency of the glass options that they are where you should focus, Argon helps a little more than LowE and the foam filling helps less than the argon, but they all work to give you an efficient product. One line has an upgrade for super spacer and we have a pkg deal with the manufacturer for foam filling, lowE, argon, and super spacer that we retail for $25 more than clear IG.
Last edited by JScott on Sat Sep 10, 2005 10:24 am, edited 2 times in total.

JScott
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#12 Post by JScott » Sat Sep 10, 2005 9:53 am

Thanks

I just learned how to delete just as well.
Last edited by JScott on Sat Sep 10, 2005 10:28 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Window4U (IL)
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#13 Post by Window4U (IL) » Sat Sep 10, 2005 10:03 am

On the upper right hand corner of any post you made is the edit button. It's right next to the quote button.

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#14 Post by HipKat » Sat Sep 10, 2005 12:26 pm

I'm not saying the foam does nothing. It obviously is going to add to the insulating qualities, but it's only minutely.
We did an experiment with a foam filled and non filled frame, a heat lamp. digital solar meter, and a pretty controlled environment and the difference was about 5 watts on the solar meter.
the foam that vista uses, and I'm not familiar with everyone else's. is a hardened, resonated foam that mostly adds to the strength and integrity of the lineals.

JScott
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#15 Post by JScott » Sat Sep 10, 2005 7:53 pm

Thanks HipKat,
Window4U had already given me a respectable answer as well. When I was at the office earlier I reviewed a Fibertec manual that I have and in there study they compared simply frame R values not whole unit U values. On the other information I had it was also specifically targeted to frame R values. In both these studies it made an impressionable impact on the R value of the frame, but as FenEx has said, the window unit itself is 90% glass and I can now fully understand the benefit as a very minor one when comparing the total unit.

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