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 Post subject: window capping
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 10:40 am 

Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 9:26 am
Posts: 6
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Hello,

Just had an installer do some windows, my question is regarding the exterior capping... I have all double-hungs, and in several places there are 2-3 windows side by side, separated by wood (forgive my terminology, I don't know what this stuff is called). I don't really know how to explain this... Well, the original aluminum windows were flush against the outside of the house, and the framework of the window looked to be built around it. But the vinyl windows are now inside of that frame that was built, and thus not as flush against the outside of the house as the aluminum was. Well, my concern is that with the wood about 3-4" wide in between each window, and now that the vinyl windows don't extend as far as the aluminum ones did (they are inside the frame that was built around the aluminum ones), there are considerable gaps in between the windows. And with the capping (flat standard capping I assume) there are huge, flat, white borders around and in between each of the windows. Makes it look very blocky. Is there anything reasonable that can be done to make this look a little better? Would beveled capping help? I'm going to call the installer today to see if there is anything he can do to make it look better from the outside. Let me know your thoughts. Thanks.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 10:28 pm 

Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 9:34 pm
Posts: 81
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Pro
If you could post a picture of what was done I am sure I might be able to answer your question.
My question to you is. Why didnt you bring this to the attention of your installer after he did 1 or 2 windows. Instead of waiting untill the whole job was done?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 9:43 am 

Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 9:26 am
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I'll try to get a picture up soon, but unfortunately I couldn't be home for the entire installation, and I brouhgt it up coming home during lunch to see how things were progressing. And I did bring it up before he had all of them done, he was about halfway done. But basically, I talked to the installer about it in more detail. It is really only a problem to me in one place, the front of the house that has 3 windows side by side, with a 4" wood spacer in between each one. And like I said, with the vinyl windows now being inside of the frame the gap between the windows is now closer to 5.5". So I have a 5.5" gap of aluminum capping between each window. This was something I didn't realize would be an eyesore until after I saw it done. The other side by side windows only have maybe a 3" wood spacer giving it about a 4" gap of aluminum capping between them - not great, but it's better than the 5.5".

I was trying to come up with different options for giving it some kind of profile, but I don't really want to build it out farther out. I do not fault the installer for this, it is just the way the house is built (with the huge spacer between the windows), but I am willing to pay extra to have it modified somehow, I just don't know what can be done.

As another question, I noticed when the exterior capping was put up, there were spaces of air behind them, should this be insulated (in Atlanta, GA)? I would think ideally it should be, and is it something where someone could just shoot some of that expanding foam behind the capping (instead of having to remove it all)? Or is this normal?

Thanks all for your help.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 6:58 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:58 pm
Posts: 1326
Location: Northern & Central Illinois, Chicago suburbs
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If you can't figure out how to post the photos on this site, you can email them to me if you want and I'd be more than happy to post them for you. I'd like to help you with advice and would I'd like to see them too.


Last edited by Window4U (IL) on Fri Feb 15, 2008 8:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 6:59 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:10 pm
Posts: 222
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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Handyman, He's referring to the Mull Posts that separate the windows I assume. It's the loss of glass situation that overwhelm people after installation. I don't know what kind of profile his new windows have. I"ve also never seen an aluminum frame with a four inch mullion either. That's huge in any window. The standard is around three inches here in MN. I guess I would look at the old sash and measure your side styles to see what they were at. And then see what the new window really takes up. Capping them might just make them look even bigger! THis is a common issue in the industry that is never pointed out. To break up the solid color have your installer cap the center of the post with a different color. This will break up the overall large look. We will do this from time to time on the older weight cavity box covers. Good Luck!!!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 7:14 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 5:51 pm
Posts: 27
Location: Kingsport, TN
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To decrease the width, between the windows, have the installer remove the capping then he can remove the mull boards, which i do on about every job...behind that space will need to be insulated with normal R-11 or R-13, then have him cap that space with the board off. This will give the mulls a recessed look and decrease the width by about 1 1/2".


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 9:27 pm 

Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 9:34 pm
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guy and pro
Both good suggestions but I am starting to think from the interior descriptions that the installers removed the mullions the tried to install the windows. which were then 3 to 5 inches to narrow. It can happen dont think you can tell me it wont you 2.
I will wait for pictures of the finished job to make my determination.
Pro I dont care about b4,during and after just post the finished job inside and out please..
Guy I once hired a crew to do a job that included coil work(Capping)
b4 they drove away I noticed they had no break and stopped them. Then I asked how are you going to cap the windows you have no break ? They replied . We dont need one we have two 2x4s and a rubber mallet. If the 2x4s are good a straight we can bend "stuff" upto 12 ft long. I sent them home with $50 for gas money and my words to them were "dont go away mad just go away"
It may or may not surprise you what some do(not sure if to call them hacks,installers , amaturers, WHATEVER)
I am just waiting for pictures.( ohh did you know you can bend coil on the tail gate of your pickup truck)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 10:06 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 5:51 pm
Posts: 27
Location: Kingsport, TN
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Handyman, From his descrition It sounded like his exterior was cased out with a true 1"x5". i was just saying in a triple opening the mull boards would also be a 1 x 5. He could remove these which need to be insulated behind anyways. And cap the mull with the board off. thus recessing the mull 1" and cutting down on the width by wrapping the then exposed jambs...with like a 3/4" x 4 1/2" x 3/4" x let's say 57" u piece bend. And seal down both sides.Image


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 7:10 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:10 pm
Posts: 222
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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Profx, that's what I had in mind.
Handy I do understand where your coming from in every way. The 2x4 thing is a great story. I LMAO reading that one. Never heard that one before!!! Our biggest problems here on this board is the different ways things are done in certain climates. I know you get as frustrated as I do when hearing how things are done down South or out West. Here in the Upper Midwest we take this stuff very seriously because it gets damn cold here in MN. When the mercury hits that -30 it really puts a hitch in your giddy-up. When I bid these windows I will always do everything in my arsenal to cut them out and replace the entire unit or at least gut the whole inside. It just weakens the integrity of the old frame when you cut them big old mulls out. We got it down to a science now and really don't have many issues removing them. It's usually a cost factor with the customer. You can only go as far as they want to pay! But I hear where your coming from big time.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 9:09 pm 

Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 9:34 pm
Posts: 81
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Pro
Very nice pic of a quality cap job.
Guy I agree with you. it just makes sense to remove wide mulls when ever possible . It actually makes for a better job and increased glass area.
also eliminates the need to insulate the cavity between the windows.
I still dont know what to think of your different color technique. Ill give it a dry fit look next time I get a chance. What colors do you usually use for the mull?
Prof
Did your home have cedar trim between the windows originally, is it in the midwest built late 80s through present? Is the interior mull between the windows drywall? If so the cedar board between the 2 windows could have been removed and then the window mull capped with a piece 2 to 3 inches narrower. Does the present wrap touch the screen track on the windows?
One final big question did the installers remove the old aluminum window frames before they installed the new windows? (see where I am going now guy) Thats why I would like to see some pictures.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 8:43 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:10 pm
Posts: 222
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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I have only run into Cedar about a half dozen times in my entire carrier. About 65% are Fir or Clear Pine. Then about 35% solid Oak or another Hardwood. The last ten percent is a mixture of whatever could be found in the scrap pile including sheetrock. The sheetrock return wasn't a big thing of the Polish, Norwegians or the Swedes here. They all had a fine love for as much wood as they could use. Mahogany and Oak seemed to be the real big choices of our forefathers. So that's why the folk here in MN love that wood interior. The sheetrock return is becoming more popular today. Many of the Southern and National builders have brought that look here. I hate it myself. I think it looks cheap compared to our windows of yesterday. The biggest factor is for servicing. I can't just pop off the trim and look behind the frame if there's an issue. I have to make a mess and get dust everywhere. I hate sheetrock!!

The capping color change we've only done a couple times to homes that have another trim color other than the standard white or tan. The one that stands out in my mind is a home we did that had grey siding with a cranberry trim. We capped the unit in the grey right up to the edge of the window with a 45 degree tension bend. I capped the center of the mull post with the cranberry. I was very scared until I finished and stepped back. It looked kind of neat. It can only be done with certain colors and it's not anything I push in any way. Kind of a last resort if the customer gives it the old deer in the headlights look. You know what I mean.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 9:11 am 

Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 9:26 am
Posts: 6
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Hey all,

I know a lot of you are waiting on pictures here, sorry, I was out of town over the weekend but I will try to get some tonight posted. The picture by PorfX is quite similar with the mull board being that wide. The house is in Atlanta GA and built in 1950 - and it's weird because it is the ONLY house on the street with three side by side double hungs separated by that huge spacer - which is apparently part of the frame which I've been told by several contractors - so I couldn't remove it (without some MAJOR work). But basically, just take the pic by ProfX, have the space between the windows completely flat, and have aluminum capping over it and that's about how big it is.

Will doing modifications similar to some suggestions on here cost a lot of money/time? I mean, I want the windows to look good (or better if possible), but I don't want to break the bank doing it. Thanks for all the replies - I'll get the pic up asap![/img]


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