Pella 350 vs Okna 800 (and other questions)

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HomeSealed
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Re: Pella 350 vs Okna 800 (What to do?)

#16 Post by HomeSealed » Tue Nov 20, 2018 6:35 pm

If I'm not mistaken there is/was a "Sunshine" window company... perhaps they are out of business.

On the other stuff, I agree with WoW's advice and would only add a few minor points:

1) As WOW closed with on this topic, the VT rating is where its at and will be pretty telling as to how noticeable you can expect the tint to be. To compare apples to apples, make sure that the VT and SHGC are within a couple points of each other, but then see the U value as well as CR (condensation resistance). When comparable glass is used, the Okna will be multiple points better in u value. Also keep in mind IF you are in the Northern climate zone, Sunrise adds an interior (surface 4) hard coat of low e that will decimate condensation resistance in their double hungs. This is alleviated by going with triple pane, OR not caring if it is Energy Star rated (.27 u value or lower/better).

2) Right on. 500 is the same as Restorations. The 800 is only minimally larger though, about 1/4" on overall glass width (1/8" per side).

3) Agreed. In thousands installed I've yet to run into the first homeowner that has had an issue. In fact, the lift rail on the 500 and the handle on the 800 both project the same distance (roughly 1/4") from the interior of the mainframe. The handle just looks like it sticks out farther because it starts at the glass edge where the vinyl lift rail is on the face of the sash.

4) +1. STC ratings should be pretty similar based on the glass, although I'd contend that the 800 could be a little quieter due to the frame and more airtight assembly. Both products will offer laminated glass options for sound mitigation as well. It can be pricey but is a nice investment when only needed in a select few units.

The Sunrise Restorations is a nice window and I doubt that you would regret your decision should you choose that option, however the Okna 800 is objectively and measurably better, sounds like a more comprehensive install, and all at a lower price. As long as the installation company has a good history and reputation, this seems like an easy decision IMO.

Newbie772
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Re: Pella 350 vs Okna 800 (What to do?)

#17 Post by Newbie772 » Tue Nov 20, 2018 8:14 pm

Thanks for these detailed answers. Really appreciate it. My location is central NC.

I’m looking in the brochures at the specs.

Okna 800 (SunSeal Deluxe Energy Savings Package):
U factor 0.26
Solar heat gain coefficient 0.21
Visible transmittance 0.41

Okna 800 (Deluxe Energy Savings Package):
U factor 0.26
SHGC 0.29
Visible transmittance 0.53

Sunrise Restorations DH with Omega 12 (twelve layers) glass package without interior low e
U factor 0.28
SHGC 0.21
Visible transmittance Not provided???

Sunrise Restorations DH with the Ultra U Plus (8 layers) glass package without interior low e
U factor 0.28
Solar heat gain coefficient 0.28
Visible transmittance Not provided???

I will try and get the visible transmittance numbers from the Sunrise installer.

Thanks!
Last edited by Newbie772 on Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:15 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Delaware Mike
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Re: Pella 350 vs Okna 800 (What to do?)

#18 Post by Delaware Mike » Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:45 am

OKNA 800dx (deluxe will give foam filled frames) will be a .26 overall u-factor and add optional Sunseal and you're good to go. I would not go with the Sunrise surface #4 low-e coating if you fancy their products and dealer. I don't think you need numbers approaching triple-glazed u-factors in your area?

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Re: Pella 350 vs Okna 800 (What to do?)

#19 Post by Newbie772 » Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:55 am

Delaware Mike, you are correct, the Okna quote was for the sunseal deluxe energy savings package with foam filled extrusions and a U factor of 0.26. I have updated my post.

What do you all think of the visible transmittance value for Okna 800? It seems a bit on the low side.

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Windows on Washington
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Re: Pella 350 vs Okna 800 (What to do?)

#20 Post by Windows on Washington » Wed Nov 21, 2018 7:35 am

The VT of 0.41 is for the Sunseal glass here (i.e. Guardian 5527) and would have a VT that is consistent with the Low-e 366 (or be more in that range). It is not required here unless you are South of the a good bit South which central NC doesn't really fit that criteria in my book. Your climate is still mixed and it isn't like Florida.

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Re: Pella 350 vs Okna 800 (What to do?)

#21 Post by TheWindowNerd » Wed Nov 21, 2018 10:15 am

So when I retire here in PA, should I come to NC so they have some more good installers? :lol:

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Re: Pella 350 vs Okna 800 (What to do?)

#22 Post by HomeSealed » Wed Nov 21, 2018 5:40 pm

I'll defer to the guys closer to you as far as the SunSeal vs Standard. My stressing of the VT, SHGC, and CR are far more important in a northern climate like mine, however it sounds like the consensus is that even in your more mild climate the standard package is better and the surface 4 coating is not recommended.

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Re: Pella 350 vs Okna 800 (What to do?)

#23 Post by Windows on Washington » Thu Nov 22, 2018 8:55 am

Still gets chilly in NC. I think surface 4 coatings are a band-aid for mediocre glass and unless you live in an arid climate, a possible recipe for customer disappointment and complaints.

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Re: Pella 350 vs Okna 800 (What to do?)

#24 Post by TheWindowNerd » Fri Nov 23, 2018 8:24 am

+1
well said Eric.

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Re: Pella 350 vs Okna 800 (What to do?)

#25 Post by HomeSealed » Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:01 am

Windows on Washington wrote:
Thu Nov 22, 2018 8:55 am
surface 4 coatings are a band-aid for mediocre glass... and... a possible recipe for customer disappointment and complaints.
^^^ Strongly agree.^^^

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Re: Pella 350 vs Okna 800 (What to do?)

#26 Post by Newbie772 » Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:21 pm

Newbie772 wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 8:14 pm

My location is central NC. Summers can be brutal here. It gets somewhat chilly in the winter but the summer heat is more of a concern in terms of energy costs. Sunrise installer says the interior low e coating is not standard for this area so I have dropped that option from consideration. The VT for sunrise restorations omega 12 glass seems significantly better than for the Okna with sunseal.

Okna 800 (SunSeal Deluxe Energy Savings Package):
U factor 0.26
Solar heat gain coefficient 0.21
Visible transmittance 0.41

Okna 800 (Deluxe Energy Savings Package):
U factor 0.26
SHGC 0.29
Visible transmittance 0.53

Sunrise Restorations DH with Omega 12 (twelve layers) glass package without interior low e
U factor 0.28
SHGC 0.21
Visible transmittance 0.49

Sunrise Restorations DH with the Ultra U Plus (8 layers) glass package without interior low e
U factor 0.28
Solar heat gain coefficient 0.28
Visible transmittance 0.53

(Updated post with visible transmittance numbers from the Sunrise installer)

Thanks!

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Re: Pella 350 vs Okna 800 (What to do?)

#27 Post by Windows on Washington » Thu Nov 29, 2018 7:28 am

The 800 with the standard deluxe would be my overwhelming choice of that group.

If you want more efficiency, go with the triple pane.

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Re: Pella 350 vs Okna 800 (What to do?)

#28 Post by Newbie772 » Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:16 am

WoW, thanks for the input! I feel a lot more comfortable with the installation method proposed by the Okna installer in terms of long term performance of the windows. Is the installation method factoring into your opinion?

One thing I am not clear on yet is whether the Okna 800 standard deluxe package (no Sunseal) is energy star certified in my location - Apex, NC.

On paper, I like the performance numbers for the Sunrise Restorations Omega 12 windows. It offers low SHGC of 0.21 and reasonable VT of 0.49.
Last edited by Newbie772 on Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:35 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Pella 350 vs Okna 800 (What to do?)

#29 Post by Newbie772 » Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:16 am

a

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Re: Pella 350 vs Okna 800 (What to do?)

#30 Post by HomeSealed » Thu Nov 29, 2018 11:03 am

Newbie772 wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:16 am
WoW, thanks for the input! I feel a lot more comfortable with the installation method proposed by the Okna installer in terms of long term performance of the windows. Is the installation method factoring into your opinion?

One thing I am not clear on yet is whether the Okna 800 standard deluxe package (no Sunseal) is energy star certified in my location - Apex, NC.

On paper, I like the performance numbers for the Sunrise Restorations Omega 12 windows. It offers low SHGC of 0.21 and reasonable VT of 0.49.
That standard 800 package should be Energy Star for your location, yes.
I won't put words in anyone's mouth, but regarding the Sunrise Omega 12:
1) That lower shgc is not likely to be beneficial in your location and could actually be detrimental to overall efficiency. In colder climates it is DEFINITELY a poor choice, but even in your more moderate region, its not going to be desirable.
2) The shgc and vt numbers don't jibe. I question whether those are accurate, as a shgc at .21 typically results in a lower vt than that. Admittedly I don't know every in and out of the Sunrise glass offerings, but it would be worth getting a CPD number and verifying that on NFRC.org if that is really appealing to you...
....That, or you could just take the unanimous opinion here about the Okna option offering a superior window, superior install, and superior price and not waste any further time on the other option... Sorry for being blunt, but it should be a pretty easy choice. Research is excellent and highly encouraged, but be weary of the "paralysis by analysis" trap that can be fallen into.

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