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 Vinyl Window Installation

Author: Trombs (207.190.205.---)
Date:   

I am in the process of evaluating whether or not to have Harvey Regency vinyl replacement windows installed in an 80 year old house. Question I had was that installer said that he would recommend installing mechanical fastened frame because they look a bit better installed because they can be put in a way so that if the old opening is not perfectly square, they can put the window in so that the window does not appear to be un-level with the existing opening.

Don't quite understand this; I figure whether it is mechanically fastened or fully welded window has to still go square so that sash opens correctly.

Any help with this would be great....thanks.


 

 Re: Vinyl Window Installation

Author: Window4U (IL) (---.client.insightBB.com)
Date:   

Holy crap....I about choked on that one.
Let me try to translate for you.........He recommends mechanically fastened because he gets them so much cheaper and his profit margin will be much higher.


 

 Re: Vinyl Window Installation

Author: Trombs (207.190.205.---)
Date:   

Thanks, that's what I had in the back of my mind as well. Are there any adavantages with going with mechanically fastened frames besides cost???

Thanks again.


 

 Re: Vinyl Window Installation

Author: Window4U (IL) (---.client.insightBB.com)
Date:   

QUOTE:>Are there any advantages with going with mechanically fastened frames besides cost???<

Yes. If you get too hot, the leaking air coming through the mechanically fastened corners will cool you off............Oh, sorry about that, I couldn't resist. :-)


 

 Re: Vinyl Window Installation

Author: FenEx (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date:   

Additional benefit:
When you need to replace them again in 3 years... it will save on removal costs as they they can be knocked apart with an old shoe.

I must applaud that saleman's creativity though... he should be in politics.


 

 Re: Vinyl Window Installation

Author: Mike B (198.151.41.---)
Date:   

One final benefit of mechanically fastened frames:

Questions online regarding mechanically fastened frames provide an easy outlet for all the hidden humor pent up in professional window installers


 

 Re: Vinyl Window Installation

Author: Window4U (IL) (---.001.starnetwx.net)
Date:   

LOL !




 

 Re: Vinyl Window Installation

Author: Window4U (IL) (---.001.starnetwx.net)
Date:   

Trombs wrote:
Question I had was that installer said that he
> would recommend installing mechanical fastened frame because
> they look a bit better installed because they can be put in a
> way so that if the old opening is not perfectly square, they
> can put the window in so that the window does not appear to be
> un-level with the existing opening.

> square so that sash opens correctly.
>
> Any help with this would be great....thanks.
______________________________________

All kidding aside, I'm afraid I might know what he has in mind after thinking about it a while. He is probably thinking of putting in the frame unsquare and then racking the sashes out of square to match the frame. On mechanically framed windows, the glass is not wet-set into silicone, but is rather compression set with a rubber marine glazing that does not glue the glass and sash frame together like is done in welded windows. If you tap a corner of these mechanical sashes, you can rack them out of square. It is absolutely not a proper installation method. DON"T let him do it.




 

 Re: Vinyl Window Installation

Author: ken (---.artesyn.com)
Date:   

I got Schurco replacement windows several years ago because I was tired of window condensation. New windows took care of that problem. A year ago I noticed air coming in around the window in the living room. Dealer came and repacked insulation. No more air blowing in. This fall I happened to turn on my whole house fan with the windows and doors shut and was surprised to feel air being pulled in around the windows. My question is: how much air infiltration around the windows is expected? Seems like I am loosing the advantage of the Schurco window if there is any air infiltration around them.


 

 Re: Vinyl Window Installation

Author: FenEx (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date:   

Ken

First of all.... you may want to turn your fan off. If you are pumping "x" amount of cfm's out... the air will be replaced. You are creating a vacuum and accelerating a stack effect. Believe it or not... even running a dehumidifier draws in more moisture than it removes. You cannot break the laws of thermodynamics. Your fan is creating a negative pressure in your house and creating the problem.


 

 Re: Vinyl Window Installation

Author: ken (---.artesyn.com)
Date:   

The fan is off, thank you. I had the fan on to see if there was air still coming in from outside. With the fan off I expect the air is still able to infiltrate. Is there not some vacume effect on some part of the house whenever the wind is blowing outside? The question still is : how much air should be able to come in around the windows? And what is a stack effect? And what does a basement dehumidifier have to do with air infiltration?


 

 Re: Vinyl Window Installation

Author: FenEx (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date:   

If your house is properly sealed... the air will not infiltrate as the pressure will equalize. Air doesn't move for fun... it is moved by pressure and temperature each moving towards a lessor environment. As for the wind blowing outside... No. It might help you determine direct, unsealed openings in your pressure boundary of your home as the air leaks through but even without a wind, if you over ventilate your roof you will suck in air. If properly sealed, you will not.

Heat does NOT rise... it moves equally in all directions. Hot air rises and will create an upward convection of air that will draw in replacement air from the lowest point of temperature and pressure... usually your basement... that is stack effect. Air, temperature and moisture are buddies.... they always move together.

You should seal around your windows... but if you continue to run a whole house fan... you will draw air from the next source of least resistance... perhaps through polluted earth and old foundation walls. My point being that the concept of over-ventilating with fans or using dehumidifiers does NOT cure the problem... in fact ... it makes it much worse.

And by the way... you are welcome... you asked.


 

 Re: Vinyl Window Installation

Author: ken (---.artesyn.com)
Date:   

Thank you again for your response. I am getting closer to an answer to my original question. Since air is coming in around the windows when I create a negative pressure with my whole house fan, should I expect the installer to have sealed the windows in place and is that even possible or is some leakage to be expected? Is it possible or practicle for me to seal them so well that there is no air coming in even with the whole house fan creating negative air pressure?
BTW, my dehumidifer in the basement keeps the basement from smelling moldy in the hot humid summers here in MN. Doesn't seem like I'm making it worse by operating the dehumidfier. In winter I turn off the dehumidifier and turn on the humidifer on the furnace. The only condensation I have now is on large "low e" (not Schuco) windows that are windows directly above the furnace vents and then only when furnace starts up in the morning. I also get condensation in the ceiling of a poorly insulated room addition; but that's another problem.


 

 Re: Vinyl Window Installation

Author: Window4U (IL) (---.client.insightBB.com)
Date:   

It is possible that the new windows are not leaking, but rather the old jamb is leaking where it meets the stud wall, and especially if your old windows had weight boxes. If filling the weight boxes with insulation is an option, then that would help as well as sealing all cracks around the interior and exterior trim. If your interior trim is painted, then painters caulk can be applied, then lightly smoothed out with a wet finger to blend. If it's the window itself, then call your contractor back to fix what's wrong.


 

 Re: Vinyl Window Installation

Author: windowshopper (---.ipt.aol.com)
Date:   

I was thinking profit must be higher on the mechanical frames because I have had several people recommend them. One guy sold Plygem windows and told me that the Alside Centurion (mechanically fastened window)was a better window than the plygem and that he had them in his own house. He wanted $350.00 per window for the Centurion, needless to say I did not buy them. I can get Excalibur installed for $279.00 per window from someone local who has no complaints with the BBB in the last 3 years and supposedly does very good work. The other guy and another dealer say the guy is working for nothing at that price. At the tme he told me the Excalibur were normally $399.00 and the factory had $100.00 off per window and he was taking an additional $20.00 per window. I called him six weeks later and he said he would still honor that price. I don!t know what the situation is but I have to say that is a very tempting offer.


 

 Re: Vinyl Window Installation

Author: windowshopper (---.ipt.aol.com)
Date:   

That included aluminum caps.


 

 Re: Vinyl Window Installation

Author: Window4U (IL) (---.client.insightBB.com)
Date:   

Except for the presevation comment I added at the end, this list is taken verbatum from Alsides website. They are listed in order of quality and price, starting at the lowest quality;

1. * Centurion® Premium Vinyl Windows
This classic beauty designed for superior comfort features butt-joint reinforced corner construction and aluminum reinforced sashes for strength and stability.

2. * Geneva™ Welded Sash Vinyl Windows
The elegant looks of this window come from its slimline design. The increased glass area means maximum views, while fusion-welded sashes provide years of trouble-free operation.

3. * Excalibur® Fusion Welded Vinyl Windows
For superior strength you can't go wrong with Excalibur's fusion-welded construction. The beveled frame and sash design is exceptionally slim and refined so your home will shine in a whole new light-inside and out.

4. * UltraMaxx® Fusion Welded Vinyl Windows
Maximum strength for ultimate comfort is the hallmark of UltraMaxx. Extra thick vinyl extrusions provide ultimate welding strength to fusion welded frames and sashes. And UltraMaxx is available in light oak, dark oak and cherry woodgrain interior finishes.

5. * Sheffield® Fusion Welded Vinyl Windows
Using advanced design and superior materials, Sheffield Windows produce outstanding energy savings and trouble-free operation.

6. * Preservation is the best in the Alside line and is only sold to exclusive dealers.

With 5 other window lines above the Centurion, and 3 above the Excaliber, just be aware you are not getting anywhere near a top of the line product. The Centurions are the same window I installed for Alside back in 1984. Not exactly state of the art technology.


 

 Re: Vinyl Window Installation

Author: Rose (---.chs.bellsouth.net)
Date:   

We are in the process of going with a company to install 19 vinyl replacement windows. We have had three estimiates. There is a $2,000 difference on the higher end. There is a little more than $2,000 difference on the lower end. All three have name brand window companies. We are perplexed as we are on a fixed income. However, we hate to save on the get go and pay for it on our energy bills. Any advice?
Help!!Trombs wrote:

> I am in the process of evaluating whether or not to have
> Harvey Regency vinyl replacement windows installed in an 80
> year old house. Question I had was that installer said that he
> would recommend installing mechanical fastened frame because
> they look a bit better installed because they can be put in a
> way so that if the old opening is not perfectly square, they
> can put the window in so that the window does not appear to be
> un-level with the existing opening.
>
> Don't quite understand this; I figure whether it is
> mechanically fastened or fully welded window has to still go
> square so that sash opens correctly.
>
> Any help with this would be great....thanks.


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