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 Ok, I think i've narrowed it down!

Author: overwhelmed (---.ftw.medcity.net)
Date:   

Hi, I have been reading much usefull info about windows. I have a big home/project to accomplish along with my builder in south Texas (San Antonio). From what Ihave been reading, I take it that Schuco would be very nice to use. But:

1. How does it stand up to the HEAT we get nine months out of the year?

2. Obviously the corona 4K is an awesome unit, but how good are the double pane windows? Are the double pane Schuco windows more or less similar to other "high end" double pane widows out there?

3. Is there a known window company that is a better fit for HOT/Humid environments (most of what I have been reading here is mostly concerned with cold environments).

thanks. Jaime


 

 Re: Ok, I think i've narrowed it down!

Author: Fenestration Expert (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date:   

Jaime

You can still have all the beauty and features of the Corona 4000 with double pane but is it worth the difference... that's the question. You will cut the check one way or another... either invest it in your home or send it in smaller increments to your utility companies. It very simply, is the best vinyl window on the market in every respect.

Think about your last question for a moment. Your windows are the weakest links in your home's shell. In a cold climate... you want to keep heat in, and vice versa in a hot climate. As technologically advanced as windows have become... they can't tell the difference and insulate both ways.

Good luck in making your decision.

FenEx


 

 Re: Ok, I think i've narrowed it down!

Author: overwhelmed (---.dsl.snantx.swbell.net)
Date:   

FE, I called Schuco, no distributors in Texas :-( I went and touched, handled and operated the Certainteed Newcastle XT for new construction, and the Pella Proline. These two were rated pretty high by Consumer's Reports. Based on independent laboratory testing, Top shelf was the Marvin cladded, then the Anderson, then the Pella Proline with the Proline being Consumer's Report's "Best Buy". Just under the Pella was the Certainteed. Schuco was not tested.

I google searched for any "dirt" on Pella Proline and Certainteed and only came accross two authors (one being here, can't remember who) whom indicated the Proline was not same build as the Architect or Designers series. The Certainteed's quality depended on where and who manufactured it (don't know who would be making it here in South Texas). Given your knowledge, which I can tell is vast on windows, which would you choose between these two assuming cost difference between the two were small??

Any chime in's welcomed!!

Jaime


 

 Re: Ok, I think i've narrowed it down!

Author: Fenestration Expert (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date:   

ConsumerReports holds no value to me for this particular industry. Although they might be able to run a lawnmower around a patch of grass or listen to a stereo's clarity and base an "opinion"... they do not test all of the performance features of a window. With over 700 window manufacturers available in the U.S.... do you really believe that they have the resources to narrow it down to the top 10 with even the slightest degree of accuracy? Do you think they employ "experts" that can evaluate a toaster one day and a window the next? It's a publication that survives by selling magazines through companies that will pay to have their products published.

I'm sorry, but given the two choices, I wouldn't select either nor will I direct you in those directions in good conscience.


 

 Re: Ok, I think i've narrowed it down!

Author: overwhelmed (---.ftw.medcity.net)
Date:   

hmmm......well, Schuco will not sell to me and the nearest dealer is in Colorado....what shall I do?, what shall I do?????....EF, what is your SECOND best vinyl window??


OK, I refuse to have no windows in my home!

Jaime


 

 Re: Ok, I think i've narrowed it down!

Author: Window4U {IL} (---.client.insightBB.com)
Date:   

Hey Jaime
Help is on the way! I know of what looks to be a good company that will be a Schuco dealer in Texas in a couple of weeks. Contact me via e-mail and I will give you their contact info.


 

 No need for triple glaze

Author: windowmann2000 (---.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net)
Date:   

If heat is your primary concern triple glaze is a bad investment. For example if your were in Phoenix and you had triple glaze it would cost you more to cool your home than it would with selective glazing and just two panes of glass. By selective glazing I'm referring to a low-e with a low SHGC. Triple glaze creates a lot of weight to the sashes and actually isn't as efficient as dual glaze in hot climates. Fen Ex's comments about Consumer reports are pretty accurate, but the biggest problem with CR is they only test nationally recognized brands, and those commonly available, something you could buy anywhere. Is your project new construction or replacement in an existing home? It makes a big difference in how I would point you.


 

 Re: Ok, I think i've narrowed it down!

Author: overwhelmed (---.ftw.medcity.net)
Date:   

Window4u, I will email you when I get home (working graveyard shift tonight). Great!! I will definately contact you and get into Schuco asap.


windowmann2000, This will be new construction. If Schuco does not pan out, which would you recommend?

ps. I'm really sad that Pella Proline is not well received, was kinda looking foreward to "viewed to be the best", plus they do use wood, but ultimately performance always wins....a kinetic vs thermodynamic argument! The architect and designer series is just too expensive for me.

Jaime


 

 Re: Ok, I think i've narrowed it down!

Author: Fenestration Expert (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date:   

I'd like to offer an opposing view to windowman's. I have seen documentation on a few selective coatings that have a lower shgc that are available on selected double panes and not all triple pane units. However, the triple panes offer 2 layers of low-e... and match the shgc to within 100ths. The shgc is measured by direct radiant heat, and unless you have a revolving house that follows the reverse rotation of the earth, those windows will only typically get 2-3 hours of a radiant hit under 30 degrees horizontally per day. The greater the degree of angle... the greater the reflection of radiant heat. The rest of the day and night when it's 80-105 in Phoenix... the triple pane's superior U-factor will allow far less heat to enter through convection and conduction. Every window or glass manufacturer will promote a theory... I prefer to rely on the laws of physics and thermodynamics. In this case Jaime.... kinetic energy and thermodynamics follow the same paths.

FenEx


 

 Re: Ok, I think i've narrowed it down!

Author: overwhelmed (---.dsl.snantx.swbell.net)
Date:   

So, theoretically, if all south/west facing windows were shaded with loggias and awnings, then shgc would be a non issue and "U" value would.....sort of like having a house in a large oven where there may be no direct sunlight inside the oven, but the surrounding heat is still an issue and windows with best "U" coefficient will perform best. Hmm, this makes sense.

OK, gentlemen, I need window manufacturer's names, series#, availability. So far I understand, and if I can't have Schuco, whats a close second....this thread has been like a cliff hanger for me, I eagerly visit this site to see if somebody in the know can throw me a bone, but nobody just puts it out for me to shop.

Please, please, pretty please tell me what's your SECOND choice in windows if not Schuco.

Jaime


 

 Which Schuco to Choose

Author: decision time (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date:   

OK. You guys finally convinced me. I'm going with Schuco windows. The dealer was just here and offered me the top of the line triple paned or middle of the line double paned. I live in New Jersey and don't really know if I need the triple paned glass for this area of the country. The difference in price between the two lines is about $150 per window. Also, the higher end has crypton gas and the middle line has argon. Please give me your best advice and thanks for all the other info I learned from you guys.




 

 Triple vs double.

Author: windowmann2000 (---.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net)
Date:   

Maybe my references are too old, but dual pane with a selective coating has a SHGC of .26 and triple with krypton of .37. Now I have to do all the math but actual case studies done in Phoenix documented your utilities bill well be lower with dual pane with a selective coating than with triple glaze. to further the point you must consider the extra expense of the triple pane and it just can't be worth it. And there are other problems associated with triples, the added weight is always a problem.
Put a triple glaze double hung over the sink in the kitchen and try to raise it, it's tough unless you have the block and tackle system, which most people don't use. And I'm not convinced it won't become a problem over time as it did back in the late 70's and early 80's when everyone quit using it because it created so many problems. problems.


 

 Re: Ok, I think i've narrowed it down!

Author: Fenestration Expert (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date:   

You are correct about the previous problems... their windows were not properly engineered for the weight. Some available today are. Another reason they stopped using it was because it doubled their risk of sheer stress seal failure with poorly designed spacer systems at the time. I generally recommend a smooth gliding horizontal slider over the kitchen sink BTW. It eliminates the eyeball level visual sash obstruction of a double hung and in the case of a Schuco, the sashes swing in towards you for easy cleaning after the sink slop splash.


 

 Re: Triple vs double.

Author: decision time (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date:   

So---just let me check this out with you to be sure. The Schuco double paned would be a good choice. Does the double paned also have that TPS Glazing System, and if not, is that a problem? Also, is the argon gas OK? (instead of the krypton). I'm not sure I understand the difference between the two. Thanks again. I hope to not think of too many more questions and just go ahead and order. This window business is driving me crazzzzy! PS. Thanks for the advice for the type of window I should get for over the sink. (I never would have thought to ask for that).




 

 Re: Triple vs double.

Author: overwhelmed (---.dsl.snantx.swbell.net)
Date:   

darn, left hanging again.


 

 Re: Triple vs double.

Author: Window4U {IL} (---.client.insightBB.com)
Date:   

If you are going for Schuco, the inline slider is really nice for above sinks. It has a hand sized turn handle to open the window and is easy on the back to open. The nice part is that it closes in and seals like a casement so it's very good at providing great air infiltration rates compared to normal sliders. Both sashes tilt in to clean also.


 

 Re: Triple vs double.

Author: decision time (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date:   

Thanks for the advice. I'll definitely go with your suggestion. It seems that I have one more problem, though. I just realized that the Schuco dealer who came to my house this afternoon is selling a line of Schuco called SupremaPlus and not, repeat not, the Corona line you all talk about. HELP! How is SupremaPlus different from Corona and does it really matter? Should I look for another Schuco dealer who sells the Corona line? I live in the central New Jersey area. If you know of any other dealers of Schuco in this area please let me know. Thanks. You've all been really helpful.




 

 Re: Ok, I think i've narrowed it down!

Author: Fenestration Expert (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date:   

Decision Time
The Suprema Plus is very similar to the Corona 4000. The glazing beads are different and a few other small details. There is a Schuco Corona dealer just over the border in Rockland County, NY. if you wanted to see the differences.

The double pane is available with the TPS and with argon or krypton. Krypton is double the atomic weight of argon and is a better insulator with a lower dissipation rate.


Jaime
If they are not available in your area, you may want to take a look at Gorell... they make a decent window.


 

 Re: No need for triple glaze

Author: decision time (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date:   

Hi Fen Ex! It's me again with another question. I just called my Schuco dealer requesting the TPS and krypton in a double pane window. He told me that krypton is not available in double pane window. (Suprema Plus line) Does he know what he's talking about? Thanks.




 

 Re: Ok, I think i've narrowed it down!

Author: Fenestration Expert (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date:   

Tell him it's the 405 glass pack .. it is available with double-pane krypton in the Corona 4000. What part of Jersey (town) are you in?


 

 Re: Ok, I think i've narrowed it down!

Author: decision time (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date:   

Hi Fen Ex: I sent an email but I don't think it went through. Anyway, this is the dealer who "specializes" in Suprema Plus. Will he give me a hard time getting the Corona 4000. Also, is there a big difference in price between the Corona 4000 and the Suprema Plus. He quoted me $450 per window for double pane. I live in the Central New Jersey area (Manalapan). I called another Schuco dealer this morning who was in Morris county but he also specializes in Suprema Plus. If this is going to become a big deal, should I just go with the double pane Suprema Plus with argon? PS And I thought windows would be the easy part of remodeling my house!!!!




 

 Re: Ok, I think i've narrowed it down!

Author: Todd (66.179.101.---)
Date:   

Decision time

I live in southern Jersey and just ordered Schuco windows. I ordered almost all casements in this first segment. Never heard of the Suprema Plus line and have been following the web site discussing windows for months.

I'm not sure casements come in more than one line. My local distributor says they don't sell many Schuco windows because it is a high end window. Thus they don't know too many details except its the best window around.

After looking and learning about windows for so long, I was happy to order the Schucos. Has anyone else had the Suprema line installed? Do casements come in more than one line?




 

 Re: Ok, I think i've narrowed it down!

Author: Window4U {IL} (---.client.insightBB.com)
Date:   

The Suprema line is the Schuco 3000. They named it Suprema for a group of seamless siding dealers as a semi-private label. It's basically the same window as the 4000, just a few cosmetic differences. {Kind of the same thing General Motors does. Change the grill and your Chevy is now a Pontiac}
The casements, in-line sliders, bays, bows, garden windows, etc. are all the same line.




 

 Re: Ok, I think i've narrowed it down!

Author: Dennis (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date:   

Todd,

After doing months of research, why did you choose Schuco? Also, what should I expect to pay for these windows, including installation?

Thanks

Dennis


 

 Re: Ok, I think i've narrowed it down!

Author: Todd (---.echryh01.nj.comcast.net)
Date:   

Dennis,

I considered every top window listed by the experts on the TJ website and this one (same experts). Living in South Jersey is a problem in that many of these companies simply are not available here. For example, Preservation was available from an installer in Delaware, but even though he was designated as a vendor for Preservation, he hadn't installed any yet! Milgard--closest was Maryland I think. I basically called all the companies from the web sites and asked for the local rep.

The best windows generally listed from our experts like Winstrom--sorry, not east coast. Kolbe& Kolbe--not around here. I did get estimates from Renewal and Pella--both ridiculous $$$. Several estimates for mid level windows from local people. Not HD or Sears.

Strongly considered Simonton from a local contractor with excellent refs, but ultimately couldn't pass on Schuco because of what I believe is better quality for the next 20 years. My 8 year old home started leaking water at several windows. Owned it only 2 years. Very nice area, good builder. Poor quality windows and install. Out of warranty. My feeling was-- get the best window available, hopefully a good install and forget it( and recognize some heat/energy benefit).

My Schuco dealer is 45 min away, but could give me a reference on Schuco that was very happy. Their lack of familiarity with the window (too $$$ for most in their service area)made me nervous, but if they can install it--ok by me. I contacted your Manalapan dealer, but he wouldn't come this far. I live in Cherry Hill. My deal was $700 a casement or circletop, $30 per for grids. Got 2 DH --I think was 600 per. Ultimately 100-200 more per window over Simonton, but I figure its an investment. Will do more later if this works out.

I appreciated the frank discussions on the web site and knew more than most of the contractors that came by for estimates. What's your story and what's your Schuco estimate?




 

 Re: Ok, I think i've narrowed it down!

Author: Dennis (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date:   

Todd,

Thanks for your reply. I'm just starting out on my replacement project, but this web site has helped a lot in getting me up to speed quickly.

I have had two estimates (Home Depot & Soft-Lite) for 12 DH and 10 casement windows. Both within a couple of hundred dollars of each other (around $ 11,000 installed). Home Depot sells Simonton, so it's good to hear a positive reference for them.

I asked both sales people about Schuco and they both had the same response - "you're paying a lot for triple glazed windows, which adds only a little more efficience. You really don't need that much here in New Jersey."

I plan on getting a quote from Schuco and hopefully making a decision soon.


 

 Re: Ok, I think i've narrowed it down!

Author: Todd (---.echryh01.nj.comcast.net)
Date:   

I'm not suprised the two salesmen said Schuco was not that much better, but if you read about these window brands enough, the Schuco higher price does get you better quality. I'll refer you to countless threads on the Tim Johnson site especially "SCHUCO WINDOW WORTH THE $$$$" on 6/24/04 & 6/25/04 (Thanks FenEx Wind4U others)

Certainly the Pella and Renewals are even more $$$$ and not better quality. I wasn't interested in wood interior so new construction Anderson was not an issue, but you may want to consider it if you want wood.

I got the sense from reading the web that a higher level Simonton is better than Certainteed BMII. However many local contractors used BMII and were happy.

Good luck and email me when you get the Schuco quote. Don't forget to think about the available options offered by Schuco on their web site details when getting the quote.




 

 Re: Ok, I think i've narrowed it down!

Author: Mark K (---.tmsrvo01.nj.comcast.net)
Date:   

Todd:

I live in Ocean County, NJ and just signed a contract to have 10 DH and 1 picture window replaced with Soft-Lite "Designer Collection" with Triple pane, Low-e, argon, Super Spacer, foam-filled frame, Aller-Guard weatherstripping(HealthSmart window, 1/2 screen & grilles. Dealer/installer is Best Design Windows in Brick, NJ. Good references, BBB member in good standing, etc. "Designer Collection" from Soft-Lite is exclusive to this dealer (South Jersey)and one other dealer in North Jersey. Awaiting measurement and ordering, windows should be in in about 3 weeks. Cost:$5300 complete (removal, installation, capping, disposal, cleanup.




 

 Re: Ok, I think i've narrowed it down!

Author: Mark K (---.tmsrvo01.nj.comcast.net)
Date:   

Dennis:

See my post to Todd


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