Schuco Energy Savings

[jjarcher]

The windows are great, very quiet, work well, and overall make the house much more comfortable. On to the details of my energy savings research:

I have had 13 Schuco windows installed in my house. The work was completed in mid-Jan. They replaced typical double hung, original wooden windows, with aluminum storm windows. The old windows were original with the house, which is 62 years old. The house is about 1500 sq. ft. We have not replaced any doors and have not made any major changes since the install of the windows. We have an electronic thermostat that has been running with the same program for the last three years. As far as I can tell nothing major has changed, except for the window replacement, between this year and last year. I have looked at the average temperatures for the last year and found that in Apr. of 2004 and Apr. 2005 the avg. Monthly Temp. in my area was 57.3 degrees in both years. And guess what, my therms (natural gas) used in 2004 for Apr. were 69 and in Apr. of 2005 we used 68 therms. I can send anyone the complete spreadsheet, but I thought this was a good example as the Avg. Temp was exactly the same for the two months. Now, of course there is a lot missing in this calculation – wind, humidity, more hot baths (as my hot water heater is gas fired) a furnace that is a year older and less efficient, my wife turning up the heat when I am not paying attention. Overall, I expected better numbers than 1-2% savings. We are very happy with the windows, their installation, and a much less drafty house. The house also looks 100% better from the outside. I am guessing that a 40% savings would be realized only if the windows were replacing empty holes in the wall of your house. In our case the 40% expected savings looks to be less than 5% (very optimistic). I look forward to comments and experiences. I also hope to hear some explanations for the missing savings, and how my assumption of better than a 2% savings were presumptuous and totally incorrect.

[Window4U (IL)]

I don't sell with a given fuel savings as part of my demo since savings from home to home can vary, but even replacing what you had with double glazed windows with low-e should give you decent fuel savings, let alone triple glazing with krypton. You do have triple, right?

I used to track fuel savings 25 years ago when most of the windows we put in were just double glass with no low-e and the savings were impressive even then on most homes. In homes without adequate insulation where the windows were not that bad the savings were modest. In homes where the house is well insulated but the windows were horrible the savings was much greater. That's why I have posted before that I don't believe in blanket fuel savings pledges.
I think a little longer research period would be appropriate. Try a whole heating season against a whole heating season, adjust for the heating degree day differential, and then give us an update. Thanks for the post.

[windowrep]

in the midwest region of the united states it is very well documented by independent researchers that if your average yearly fuels bills total $1400 then you will save approx. $120.00 per year. or about 8%. anyone tells you any different is exagerating numbers to land a sale. as w4u said most good salesmen selling quaility products do not have to rely on bogus savings percentages. the money invested in new windows will save you money on energy bills. but as you stated it is the comfort level and noise reduction you enjoy every day. not to mention the value increase in your property. and just as important your pride in your home. you will not loose money putting new windows in your home however it will take time to recover your actual monetary investment but then what price is put on your comfort and pride in ownership. good post. and it does pain me to agree with w4u.

[Window4U (IL)]

LOL You're too funny. I think I've decided I like you after all. Good post.

[jjarcher]

I will repost after next winter. I do have the Schuco triple glaze, Krypton gas, etc. Just to remind the readers at a savings of $120/ year and a cost of $700/ per windows and 13 windows installed, it will take 75 years for the windows to pay for themselves from an energy savings perspective. We'll talk next year.

[windowrep]

actually factoring in inflation it will be more like 39.66666 years. if you looked back months ago i posted the only way you will save 40-50% on energy bills would be to install insulated concrete block in your window openings. that is why it is my belief that unless you live in the extreme northern plains with average temps of 7 degrees for a few consecutive months triple glazing and krypton is overkill. especially if you pay extra for it. which you are. nothing is free. double pane and argon will fulfill most needs. i said most not all, there are always certain circumstances.triple pain looks great in the lab or on a stat sheet but here in the real world it is not necessary. my speedometer goes to 140 mph but i will never use the whole other side of it. why do they do that anyway?seems like they could use those extra numbers somewhere else. anyway great post and thanks for the info jjarcher

[jjarcher]

If I had invested the the $9000 and made better than inflation, I would be back around 70 years. They drive much faster overseas.

[HipKat]

Here's how it works.
Take the fuel consumption for the last 12 months, befpre the windows were installed. Compare it to the fuel consumption of the next 12 months.
Price cannot be controlled, and it usually goes up every year, but the amount you use should stay pretty steady, especially if the comparing years are, well, comparable.
Now compare the differences in consumption and see how the windows performed.

[FenEx]

My first question would be to make sure you got the right glass package. Please post all of the information from one of your windows. Open a window and list the information on the production tag from Schuco. You will find it on every window inside the master frame. Please list it as it reads. Next I would ask who your installer was because if the master frame wasn't properly sealed into the opening you may be defeating the new performance of the glass by air-infiltration around the frame.

If both of these areas check out ok, then you might be subject to thermal acceleration due to other areas of your home with very poor insulation and pressure boundaries. This is why I recommend a home energy audit before making a major purchase, if available in your area. Your house is a system... if you only address part of it, you may be only re-routing the problem to the next weakest link. As you have seen in past posts, this is why I discourage blanket statements or guaranties of % of energy savings from ANY product.

Look for a BPI or RESNET Certified Energy Rater/Auditor in your area. Their audits are per EPA and USDOE regulations and are usually between $250-$500 per house. It will tell you where the energy is being lost, and if the installer you chose is Certified for audits and Accredited for installation, the entire cost is deducted from your window or shell (siding, roofing, insulation) purchase. In a growing number of states you may also be eligible for other state, federal or dealer incentives under these programs. Some dealers are offering the incentives (prior to state and federal funding) on their own to promote the programs.

Please share the aforementioned information.

FenEx

[HipKat]

Yeah, like my apt, which has NO insulation in the walls. In Winter, my exterior walls are ice cold.
The roof plays in. All of it.

[jjarcher]

I have found an NFRC sticker in the window that reads: Code: SCH, Rating: NFRC, Series: Corona 3000/4000, MST: 3050. I also read the tags on the windows when they arrived and they were the correct ones with the correct glass packs. The installers were subcontractors to the dealer, not the promised, "all of our installers are W-2 employees that have been factory trained." I asked them about the training and they had absolutely no idea what I was talking about. They further explained that they were under the impression that the dealer had no full time installers at all. I have no idea of how they were to be installed, although they look and seem fine -- no apparent drafts, leaks, etc. I was concerned because they didn't seem to use any insulation at all, only caulking and trim. I was recommeded to my dealer in N. VA by this web site.

[windowrep]

uh oh.

[jjarcher]

Great, what does that mean?

[Window4U (IL)]

Schuco windows are pre-wrapped with soft foam insulation around the outside of the frame. Not seeing them use much insulation is normal. It's already there, though you still usually have to add a little bit at the corners.

[windowrep]

were your old wood double hungs operated by ropes and weights?