cancellation fee issues
cancellation fee issues
Need some advice. I listened to a sales pitch last weekend complete with heat lamp and comparison windows, seemed believable. I hesitatingly signed a contract for seven heat mirror windows for $850/ea, nothing ventured nothing gained. After doing a bit of research (including this helpful site) I decided to cancel the contract and do more research. Perhaps I overdo it a bit. I spent more time and less $$ searching for my last car.
Yesterday I received a 'courtesy call' and cancelled my order. Today I got a pressured sales call saying I should just trust them based on 60 years of business, 300 million in sales, bla bla, and go forward. Based on what? The guy bashed the NFRC site saying when the industry decides on a single method to test windows, his business will triple. I didn't buy it. His R10 window doesn't show up on the site. Now this company is withholding about $900 of my deposit, saying the cancellation letter wasn't postmarked in time, yet I have the receipt for the UPS Express Envelope which shows the correct date. No site work has been done (no measuring or installation, just a sales visit).
They claim that they spent money processing my order. They received the letter today (Friday). How much work was done between the postmark deadline (Wednesday, midnight) and this morning? The contract has the estimated starting date 6-8 weeks from the signing date.
What should I do? Virginia has by law a 10-day cancellation window, so I read. What about Maryland?
This whole situation has thrust me into the window industry. Makes me want to do the work myself. The high pressure sales guy said I must have been burned in the past to want to know everything, says I lack trust. I think this is the reason why the NFRC site was formed in the first place.
Actually, I haven't been burned until now if you want to call it that. In a lot of ways I'm glad to have gotten out when I did. Jesus trusted no man because he knew what was in man. Makes me trust even less in man, more in Jesus.
Michael
But I still need windows
Yesterday I received a 'courtesy call' and cancelled my order. Today I got a pressured sales call saying I should just trust them based on 60 years of business, 300 million in sales, bla bla, and go forward. Based on what? The guy bashed the NFRC site saying when the industry decides on a single method to test windows, his business will triple. I didn't buy it. His R10 window doesn't show up on the site. Now this company is withholding about $900 of my deposit, saying the cancellation letter wasn't postmarked in time, yet I have the receipt for the UPS Express Envelope which shows the correct date. No site work has been done (no measuring or installation, just a sales visit).
They claim that they spent money processing my order. They received the letter today (Friday). How much work was done between the postmark deadline (Wednesday, midnight) and this morning? The contract has the estimated starting date 6-8 weeks from the signing date.
What should I do? Virginia has by law a 10-day cancellation window, so I read. What about Maryland?
This whole situation has thrust me into the window industry. Makes me want to do the work myself. The high pressure sales guy said I must have been burned in the past to want to know everything, says I lack trust. I think this is the reason why the NFRC site was formed in the first place.
Actually, I haven't been burned until now if you want to call it that. In a lot of ways I'm glad to have gotten out when I did. Jesus trusted no man because he knew what was in man. Makes me trust even less in man, more in Jesus.
Michael
But I still need windows
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- Posts: 243
- Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 3:28 pm
- Location: WISCONSIN
If you cancelled your contract according to the laws in your state, you have the right to a full refund........period. Their jacking you around and you should point this out and simply tell them the next communication will be with an attorney. I would also advise the BBB, the local Chamber and maybe a pho call to the local newspaper.
The exception to this would be some fine print like Pacesetter use to have in their contracts allowing them a fee even if you cancelled, that would require an attorney.
At $850.00 per window, I would do some more shopping.
The exception to this would be some fine print like Pacesetter use to have in their contracts allowing them a fee even if you cancelled, that would require an attorney.
At $850.00 per window, I would do some more shopping.
For about $35 in most states you can file a suit in small claims court. Unquestionably you will win, especially if you can prove with your postmarks that you complied with the law in your state. You'll even recover your filing fee.
Companies such as this are betting that you will do one of the following:
1.) Go ahead with the order, rather than lose the $900 they are trying to withhold.
2.) Go away and not fight to get your money back, because you don't know the process.
I'd call the BBB, the Commerce Dept, Attorney General and the media and bring down the heat on them. They'll cave.
Companies such as this are betting that you will do one of the following:
1.) Go ahead with the order, rather than lose the $900 they are trying to withhold.
2.) Go away and not fight to get your money back, because you don't know the process.
I'd call the BBB, the Commerce Dept, Attorney General and the media and bring down the heat on them. They'll cave.
- Window4U (IL)
- Posts: 1374
- Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:58 pm
- Location: Sales and Installation in Chicagoland and Central Illinois
Re: cancellation fee issues
Deleted.
Last edited by Window4U (IL) on Sun Aug 19, 2007 4:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Virginia has by law a 10-day cancellation window, so I read. What about Maryland?"
Wrong, Virginia has a 3 day cancellation period. This excludes Saturday, so if you purchased on a Friday, you have until the following Wednesday at midnight to cancel.
Reading your post, I suspect there's a little more to this story. So before you start contacting the BBB, States Attorney etc. please make sure you have your facts straight.
The 3 day recission also protects the contractor from those who don't understand the meaning of "a deal's a deal". I wouldn't refund your money after the 3 days and I'd expect you to abide by the law in the same way you'd expect our company to.
Wrong, Virginia has a 3 day cancellation period. This excludes Saturday, so if you purchased on a Friday, you have until the following Wednesday at midnight to cancel.
Reading your post, I suspect there's a little more to this story. So before you start contacting the BBB, States Attorney etc. please make sure you have your facts straight.
The 3 day recission also protects the contractor from those who don't understand the meaning of "a deal's a deal". I wouldn't refund your money after the 3 days and I'd expect you to abide by the law in the same way you'd expect our company to.
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- Posts: 243
- Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 3:28 pm
- Location: WISCONSIN
It's pretty obvious the customer bought on a Friday or Saturday, giving him until midnight Wed to cancel. If everything he states is true he has the right to raise hell. Reading his post a few times makes me believe Pacesetter has been resurrected.
Window4U does show the other side of the coin, but I'll bet my new heat lamp that isn't the case here, that's after I stop crying.
Window4U does show the other side of the coin, but I'll bet my new heat lamp that isn't the case here, that's after I stop crying.
reply
In most states, there is an exception to the 3-day cancellation rule. If you signed the contract in your home, you get the three business days, however, if you signed it in their office, you do not. Not sure if this applies but I thought I'd toss it out there anyways.
Additionally, for the contractor to keep part of your money even after the three days they would have to show that they completed some part of your contract. This would include ordering product or providing part of the service/labor end. If they haven't even remeasured, it's a pretty safe bet they do not have expenses incurred as of yet. Good luck.
Additionally, for the contractor to keep part of your money even after the three days they would have to show that they completed some part of your contract. This would include ordering product or providing part of the service/labor end. If they haven't even remeasured, it's a pretty safe bet they do not have expenses incurred as of yet. Good luck.
All responses much appreciated. Let me clarify some of the timing.
Saturday - sales visit (my home), I sign a contract.
Wednesday - First courtesy call to us from the company, my wife mentions my desire to cancel but recommends calling me at work. I also mail the cancellation letter UPS Express with tracking #.
Wednesday midnight - the 3-day deadline to get a letter "in the mail"
Thursday - Second courtesy call -company calls me at work, no pressure. I verbally cancel and mention letter.
Friday - Letter arrives, another phone call (sales manager). This is where I'm surprised find out about the 15% penalty for late cancellation (back page of contract) and mention a receipt from UPS before the midnight deadline...
Thanks for the insight into the 'other side of the coin' since I do value the sales visit and her time (four hours) on a Saturday. We actually had a very enjoyable time talking about testimonies, gardens, etc. More of a social visit with some business thrown in, science experiment, etc. However, if the company awarded her a commision based on my validated contract I think they did so in ignorance of information we clearly made available in a timely manner.
I can see how the company has to recover their costs somehow. Before they have any income they have to pay the two guys who knocked on my door, the girl who made the Saturday sales appointment, the girl who did the sales visit, etc.
My apologies for quoting innacurate VA law and thanks for the correction.
I appreciate the advice from all who took time to post.
Saturday - sales visit (my home), I sign a contract.
Wednesday - First courtesy call to us from the company, my wife mentions my desire to cancel but recommends calling me at work. I also mail the cancellation letter UPS Express with tracking #.
Wednesday midnight - the 3-day deadline to get a letter "in the mail"
Thursday - Second courtesy call -company calls me at work, no pressure. I verbally cancel and mention letter.
Friday - Letter arrives, another phone call (sales manager). This is where I'm surprised find out about the 15% penalty for late cancellation (back page of contract) and mention a receipt from UPS before the midnight deadline...
Thanks for the insight into the 'other side of the coin' since I do value the sales visit and her time (four hours) on a Saturday. We actually had a very enjoyable time talking about testimonies, gardens, etc. More of a social visit with some business thrown in, science experiment, etc. However, if the company awarded her a commision based on my validated contract I think they did so in ignorance of information we clearly made available in a timely manner.
I can see how the company has to recover their costs somehow. Before they have any income they have to pay the two guys who knocked on my door, the girl who made the Saturday sales appointment, the girl who did the sales visit, etc.
My apologies for quoting innacurate VA law and thanks for the correction.
I appreciate the advice from all who took time to post.
- Window4U (IL)
- Posts: 1374
- Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:58 pm
- Location: Sales and Installation in Chicagoland and Central Illinois
I haven't filed yet, but plan to through the BBB. Can anyone comment on this company's BBB rating? They have had four complaints since June '07 (their file opening date). They appear to be a newly spun off branch from the parent company, which has 32 complaints filed in the last 12 months. Are these numbers 'normal' or should I be looking for a company with better ratings? Searches on this site reveal companies with "zero" complaints in 12 months. I guess it depends on how much business you have, but there's no data on the BBB site for this, rather the BBB lists in some detail how the company responds to each claim...
Back to our original post (here horsey horsey, time for your next beating). The contract says get a letter "in the mail" by midnight 3 business days later. Nothing else required, verbal or otherwise.
I hope this doesn't come down to dissecting what "in the mail" means? The bible cautions to "not to wrangle about words, which is useless, and leads to the ruin of the hearers."
If so I'll chalk it up to a loss on my part, the door to door sales guy's need school supplies for their kids. How's that for justification?
Back to our original post (here horsey horsey, time for your next beating). The contract says get a letter "in the mail" by midnight 3 business days later. Nothing else required, verbal or otherwise.
I hope this doesn't come down to dissecting what "in the mail" means? The bible cautions to "not to wrangle about words, which is useless, and leads to the ruin of the hearers."
If so I'll chalk it up to a loss on my part, the door to door sales guy's need school supplies for their kids. How's that for justification?
- Window4U (IL)
- Posts: 1374
- Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:58 pm
- Location: Sales and Installation in Chicagoland and Central Illinois
I've deleted all advice I've given in this thread since it has no educational value to you. You're free to mock someone else now.shadetree wrote:If so I'll chalk it up to a loss on my part, the door to door sales guy's need school supplies for their kids.
Hypocrites kick with their hind feet while licking with their tongues. <Proverbs>
Shadetree
It doesn't sound as if you have done anything improper. The Company cannot legally keep any part of your deposit if you did as you have said. I would contact them by mail and demand they refund your entire deposit immediately or I'd threaten to go to The Board for Contractors if you are in Va. or the Maryland Home Improvement Commission if you are in Md. Both of them have teeth and you will get much further, faster by going this route.
Good Luck..
It doesn't sound as if you have done anything improper. The Company cannot legally keep any part of your deposit if you did as you have said. I would contact them by mail and demand they refund your entire deposit immediately or I'd threaten to go to The Board for Contractors if you are in Va. or the Maryland Home Improvement Commission if you are in Md. Both of them have teeth and you will get much further, faster by going this route.
Good Luck..
Mr Window4U no harm meant, my impression of your posts was that they were honestly insightful, unique in their perspective, and worthy of reading. I wish you hadn't deleted them.
Uhhhh...I was serious in my final comment but I should have worded it more carefully, how dangerous is the tongue when used in a hasty manner. I should have been more quick to listen and slower to speak.
One of the young men who came to my door has a 9 month old and your post was the reason for my increased awareness of the results of my actions.
Uhhhh...I was serious in my final comment but I should have worded it more carefully, how dangerous is the tongue when used in a hasty manner. I should have been more quick to listen and slower to speak.
One of the young men who came to my door has a 9 month old and your post was the reason for my increased awareness of the results of my actions.
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