Help! Replacement Windows in Buffalo, NY

[cyberbob745]

Hello all - thanks for reading my post.

I am looking to purhase 4 replacement windows (double hung) and I have met with at least 6 different vendor/installers so far.

I have been shown:
Comfortworld 4000
Alside Excalibur w/Climatech
Gorell 5200 Series
Schuco - (triple glaze)
Thermal Industries DH560 - (triple glaze)
Bristol 755
Accu-Weld 2300, 2400, and 2500

Prices have ranged from $1100 to $7300 w/grids
The minimum spec on each window is Low E, Argon, Grids

I would like to get opinions from the forum on which of these windows (if any) would be a good choice. The main reason I am replacing the window is asthetics. The next reason of course is energy savings.

Thanks for your feedback.

[Windows on Washington]

Hello all - thanks for reading my post.

I am looking to purhase 4 replacement windows (double hung) and I have met with at least 6 different vendor/installers so far.

I have been shown:
Comfortworld 4000 This and the Excalibur are th same windows.
Alside Excalibur w/Climatech
Gorell 5200 Series Well built and regarded window. Aesthetically there are nicer ones out there.
Schuco - (triple glaze) Company is closing up operations so I would not venture here.
Thermal Industries DH560 - (triple glaze)
Bristol 755
Accu-Weld 2300, 2400, and 2500 Usually regarded as lower end products.

Prices have ranged from $1100 to $7300 w/grids Who the heck is quoting you over $1800 per window?
The minimum spec on each window is Low E, Argon, Grids

I would like to get opinions from the forum on which of these windows (if any) would be a good choice. The main reason I am replacing the window is asthetics. The next reason of course is energy savings.

If it is for aesthics, and you are looking for something in vinyl, Simonton, Soft-Lite, and Sunrise all make better looking vinyl windows than the ones that you have listed above.

Thanks for your feedback.

[cyberbob745]

@Windows on Washington
Thanks for your feedback - I will look into the windows that you mentioned. I think I remember a dealer mentioning that his windows were made by Simonton but with a different name. Anyway, since my post I have been to two other windows dealers - Pace and Pella.
All quotes that I got are with low E, Argon, and grids top and bottom.

So add these to the list:

Pace 930B - no quote yet
Pella Thermastar - $2188

Oh - and to answer your question I will post the cost of each window previously mentioned installed:

Comfortworld 4000 - $1196
Alside Excalibur w/Climatech - $1100
Gorell 5200 Series - $2714
Schuco - (triple glaze) - $6852
Thermal Industries DH560 - (triple glaze) - $4225
Bristol 755 - $7291 (w/oak grain inner) $6340 (w/o oak)
Accu-Weld 2400 - $1364

My other goals for the window are that it is economical and a good value. The windows they are replacing are damaged and look ugly, so that is the reason I said aesthetics.

WOW I will get vendors in to show me the Simonton, Soft-lite, and Sunrise products. Thanks again for your constructive feedback.

[windowsnj]

why stop at the original 7 bids plus your 3 additional equalling 10 total, im sure there are some others you can find out there, might as well find 3 more to total a full bakers dozen, for your 4 windows, i would hope you could find something for asthetics to your liking if not by the 13th company showing you yet another window, you can contact the NFRC and get even more mfg's for your 4 windows and if that isnt exuasting enough i believe i have a guy who can custom mold a specific design...maybe

[cyberbob745]

@windowsnj
As a dealer you have a really poor attitude. I am learning about windows. And so far yes, I have met with 7, will meet with the three that were sincerely recommended to me, and will probably meet with more. As long as the sales reps all tell me that they have the BEST window and the other guys' just aren't as good, I will look at as many windows as I please. So far EVERY one I meet has the BEST window for me - and as you should know - I have more than 4 windows in my house - and these 4 are a test. In fact I should only do one. I don't want to buy a whole house full of bad windows and crappy service because I took the first guys word that HIS were the BEST.
I think, windowsnj, that you believe your customers should just TRUST you and your word because after all YOU are the EXPERT, and we the consumer are just ignorant buyers. You are afraid of competition and the consumer actually knowing something about what they are buying. Otherwise you would encourage consumers learning about different windows because if YOUR product is truly a good product, then they will wind up at your doorstep, wanting your business.
I think if you don't have anything constructive to say you should either find something constructive to say, or just keep your mouth shut.

[windowsnj]

in my many years of being in the home improvement business, I always want the homeowner to make an educated decision on their project, and never do i want them to spend a dollar more than they have to, if that means using my company or not im ok with that, but it has been my conclusion that getting too many estimates just clouds the brain, it is a great task to analyze so many different qoutes and specs of the job. im not saying get 3 qoutes or 2 or 10, just find someone that you are comfortable with who has a product you find pleasing and do the work, if you see 10 or 15 companies and you still are not happy with anyone, maybe re-evaluate the situation and go a different route. i have read posts and posts from consumers on this board and other boards and they have done extensive research and exuasted more hours than i put in an average week, and then they come back unhappy or dissatsfied on the company they thought for sure was "the one" for them. I have said many times that even when you finally pick the window and the company and whatever else is important to you, how are you going to know if the person installing your windows that day is in the mood to do work that particular day, maybe he went drinking the night before, maybe he had a fight with his better half, maybe his dog ate the morning paper. i truley hope that you are seeing my point, its not that i dont want you to do research, but you are not buying a commodity, but rather a service that is extremey difficult if not impossible to research. i wish you all the luck and if i or anyone else on this board can be of service, im sure we will

[cyberbob745]

@windowsnj
Thank you for your constructive opinion. In my defense, I am an engineer by profession. I don't look at window specs all day, but other kinds. Its my nature to investigate things this way. For this particular project, the data happens to be window data. If you read my previous posts you can see that I've had all kinds of products at a wide range of prices. I came here looking for some opinions (by who I consider "the experts") on what are good products (barring installation by a guy that was on a bender the nite before) and what are not. I've seen by your posts that you favor the Gorell window. I went to the dealers showroom to look at the window and I liked the seals and glazing. The sash was also easy to slide up and down. So it is a window that is in the running. I've read some bad comments on the Alside and WW windows but they were mostly installation issues. On the BBB WW has a few negative comments. I thank you for enduring me doing my homework.

[windowsnj]

You didnt have to tell me that you were an engineer, i figured that out already (not that its a bad thing). I do like the Gorell model 5300 but there are other good windows out there as well, try searching the NFRC data base for #s that suit your needs

[utoo]

This persons biggest fear is not with the sales people or the widows but with his own fear that he will live to regret his buying decision.

Each of his 10 or more encounters will present him with a reason not to take the risk of making a decsion he may live to regret.

If he ever does find a window that he likes, there is still the search for the best price and then the best installers.

I will lay odds he will never buy any window from anybody for any price. That would be too fearful.

[cyberbob745]

@utoo
OK wow! You figured me out! Man I was starting to wonder why the heck I just don't buy the windows and be done with it. It's fear!

Since you have proved you are an expert at psychoanalysis, perhaps you have an constructive opinion about any of the windows that I've mentioned above, or you think that there is a window that I haven't looked at might be more suitable.

I swear, some of you installers/dealers should read your comments, and then ask, "Is it any wonder this guy does not trust these window salesman/installers he's met with?"
These forums are a good revelator of how some of your minds really work. I have to say I did not expect such venemous replies to my sincere request for help. So far the only constructive comments I got out of the chute were from WOW.

So far I have two positive remarks about Gorell - I liked what I saw at the showroom. But just an hour ago the Schuco rep called me at work, said they were not going out of business, and wanted to send the manager to my home to meet me and propose a better price. Why didn't he give me his best price when he was here? I don't like those tactics. It's like he's selling a used car. Anyway I hope that others will respond to my request for help. I am not a window expert - that is why I came here.

[FenEx]

Schuco doesn't have any field reps left. The Schuco "dealer" that called you should be drawn and quartered. May I ask what company this was?

[cyberbob745]

@FenEx
Thanks for the heads up. The company is FJB working out of BJ Wholesalers in Tonawanda, NY. Their office is 8899 Main Street Williamsville, NY.

I set an apt to meet him tomorrow after work. How can he sell a product like that?

[FenEx]

FJB & Associates is the most notorious Schuco dealer in it's history and primarily responsible for a significant amount of the bad press provided by homeowners for years. Schuco IS closing their vinyl window division on June 30th, 2008. Schuco will stay in business in other areas (i.e. Solar, Commercial).

Good luck to you.. you will need it.

[Patty]

Cyberbob745 – by aesthetics do you mean you want to have a thin sash & frame to maximize glass? Or do you want the sash & frame to have some kind of “detailing” or beveling on them to look more interesting than a flat vinyl design? Do you want the lock to be as flat/invisible as possible? Do you want full screen or half screen in your DHs – full screen can vent both sashes at same time but some may feel it interferes w/the view? Then for energy requirements do you want to have a certain kind of spacer like super spacer? Do you want to have Cardinal 366 glass (loe-3)? Dble or trpl pane? Gas filled?

(I don’t need the answers to those I’m just saying there are some questions to figure out your answers and then see which windows have the most matches with what you want – that can help narrow the choices - who cares if you look at a dozen windows. I know this is not addressing the installation and which company you like but it is a start in the whole process.)

I’m not a window person but just a homeowner who tried to study about windows. Seeing different windows available helped me to learn what requirements I even wanted in a window. Even though you are only starting w/4 windows you are most likely thinking long term and figuring you want to make the best decision because if you have to change your mind on your next window phase your house may look funny having different window brands for each phase. So you might as well take your time up front.

I am not familiar w/most of the windows of your area – the ones on your list I saw Excalibur, Schuco, Vanguard (by Sunrise) . The Excalibur has a thinner frame than many so more glass - search on this board it is not that highly regarded if I recall. Schuco – fortunately my quote was too high and so they got eliminated from my choices (and now that that whole factory sale issue came up I’m glad they were not an option for me). Vanguard, I thought, had a trim looking sash w/some “beveling”? on it. It also had really good air infiltration numbers (.03). My understanding is its spacer is Cardinal XL edge, the ufactor for DH is .28 for double pane.

As far as installation – if you can watch a crew (w/o the company expecting you) that could help in that choice. I was fortunate to watch my neighbor’s installation and the guy had 20 yrs experience and he was using a reciprocating saw all around the window in a stucco house. The blade was always popping out and nicking the stucco. He framed it w/L angle all around because there was so much stucco to fix and the owners weren’t expecting this – so the trim covered it. On the inside there were dents on the walls where apparently he’d run into the wall w/the corner of the window and he patched them. I wondered if this was normal (since I’d not seen an installation before). I knew I didn’t want this company. I paid better attention to the description of how the salesmen said they would remove the old window – if they were going to saw all around it rather than collapse the frame I knew I didn’t want that company.

Good luck in your research.