Okna versus Preservation

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Sydla
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Okna versus Preservation

#1 Post by Sydla »

Replacing 6 rotted out 20+ year old wood Anderson windows. I am not opposed to going vinyl as you can tell. I eventually will replace all the Andersen windows in the house. But should I stick with a wood clad window like a Jeld Wen W2500 or W4500 for appearances? Are those good windows?

Have had a bunch of quotes for vinyl replacement windows ranging from installers of Simonton up to Andersen. Have focused on a quote for Okna Precision Weld (400 series, I think) and Preservation EnergyMaxx SC Elite (Preservation is an Alside window, right?). Windows are roughly 36x57.

Okna came in at around $3400 and Preservation came in at $3K (includes capping). Honestly, I do not know if I am overpaying and if the quality of the window justifies those prices. I've done a ton of research on quality of windows but not finding a whole lot on what I should consider a fair price, etc. Or should I stick with a wood clad like the Jeld Wens above?

Thanks for any guidance anyone can provide.

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HomeSealed
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Re: Okna versus Preservation

#2 Post by HomeSealed »

On wood vs vinyl: What are your goals for the project? If you need a perfect stain match with a high level of richness in look and feel, wood fits that bill. Cons: It is more expensive, less efficient, requires more maintenance, and has an inferior warranty.
Vinyl is less expensive, more efficient, better warranty, etc. Cons: can't match the look and feel of wood.... Essentially it is form vs function in most cases.

Wood products that are highly regarded: Marvin and Kolbe. Integrity is a nice price point choice. Andersen and Pella each have a few products in their respective lineups that are fine as well.

Vinyl products that are highly regarded include the aforementioned Okna, Sunrise, Elements/LS by Softlite, Kensington, and some others including Polaris Ultraweld, Richlin, Homeguard Innovations, etc.

On price, you are right there in the expected range for the products quoted. Personally I'd spend a couple more bucks and look at the Okna 500 or 800, as either is a significant upgrade over the entry level 400 IMO. Personally, I would not consider the Preservation. It is bulky (less glass), has a pocket sill with channels water through the frame, has middle-range performance, and is somewhat dated. The 8000 series from alside is a better window IMO, but again, I'd encourage you to read up on the general sentiment from professionals on any brand considered. You will find a lot of guys (and gals) that promote what they sell of course, but many pros will objectively recommend competing products as well.

Sydla
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Re: Okna versus Preservation

#3 Post by Sydla »

Thank you very much! So much to think about.

I think efficiency would be where I would lean which means likely going vinyl over wood.

If you don't mind, can I ask another question. We are currently are planning on having the exterior of the house redone - repainted, capping of all wood and trim, etc. Maybe in a month or so. The contractor, who is a family friend and does high end renovations and construction, said he could install windows for no cost if I provided the windows given the capping work he's already doing to all windows, trim, etc. Or he could purchase the windows himself through his supplier. He uses Marvin or Andersen or Jeld Wen and then a few more local smaller manufacturers in the NJ/PA area. Up until this point, I had just talked with a few window installation companies that sold specific products. It just seemed easier (but a bit more expensive) and I could get the work done in the next 3 weeks or so whereas the exterior renovation might be 2 months out.

But if I let the contractor do the work, I know Marvins are top notch but probably more than I want to spend. Any thoughts on the Jeld Wen windows such as the V-2500 or V-4500 or even their wood clad ones? Any suggestions on a good vinyl window that isn't tied to a specific installation company that can be purchased through most lumber yards?

Sorry for all the questions. Getting the right windows without paying a ton seems like a massive undertaking! LOL.

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Windows on Washington
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Re: Okna versus Preservation

#4 Post by Windows on Washington »

Stay away from the Jeld-Wen if I were you.

If you want, have your contractor friend price out the Integrity.

Sydla
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Re: Okna versus Preservation

#5 Post by Sydla »

I may have him do that.

Do any of the major outfits such as Pella or Andersen use super spacers in their glass or are they all metal spacers? I believe the Integrity is a super spacer, right?

masterext
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Re: Okna versus Preservation

#6 Post by masterext »

No, marvin, andersen, and pella all use the same metal spacer.
The best energy efficiency, air tightness, and structural integrity will come from high end vinyl, not wood.

Sydla
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Re: Okna versus Preservation

#7 Post by Sydla »

masterext wrote:No, marvin, andersen, and pella all use the same metal spacer.
The best energy efficiency, air tightness, and structural integrity will come from high end vinyl, not wood.
And I am certainly not opposed to vinyl windows. I just have to do a bit more research. The issue I am having is some of the high end vinyls are limited to specific installers such as Okna which I don't need to use.

Thanks for the information guys.

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Re: Okna versus Preservation

#8 Post by TheWindowNerd »

We prefer to install what we sell.
But we also sell windows to DIY or contractors who are looking for the 800DX. The 800DX would be the window I would pick. And since you can get it installed free it seems like a very good choice.

Sydla
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Re: Okna versus Preservation

#9 Post by Sydla »

Thanks. We are replacing 6 windows now and then will slowly replace the remaining windows over time. Two (well technically four windows) are twin units and then two garage windows.

There is wood casement around the exterior of the windows and there is a bit of water damage apparently behind the siding on at least one of the windows. Our contractor is going to reflash, etc. So he suggested new construction windows as an option.

I see Okna has the 5500 which I think is just the 500 but with a nailing flange, etc. Correct?

I am in South Jersey and there are few Okna dealers in the area. But I will call around. Thanks!

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HomeSealed
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Re: Okna versus Preservation

#10 Post by HomeSealed »

Sydla wrote:Thanks. We are replacing 6 windows now and then will slowly replace the remaining windows over time. Two (well technically four windows) are twin units and then two garage windows.

There is wood casement around the exterior of the windows and there is a bit of water damage apparently behind the siding on at least one of the windows. Our contractor is going to reflash, etc. So he suggested new construction windows as an option.

I see Okna has the 5500 which I think is just the 500 but with a nailing flange, etc. Correct?

I am in South Jersey and there are few Okna dealers in the area. But I will call around. Thanks!
Sydla, I know that you may have a compelling reason for doing so, but I have to at least caution you against using separate companies to source the windows and install them. I cannot tell you how OUTRAGEOUSLY commonplace it is for these situations to go bad despite everyone's best intentions. I'd say you are an optimist if you think you have a 50/50 chance of getting through it without conflict and finger pointing. There is no such thing as a perfectly smooth job, and when the issues do arise, be prepared for finger pointing. The installer blames the manufacturer, the supplier blames the installer, and you are stuck in the middle without a clue as to who is right and wrong. Accountability is the name of the game in this industry... Take that FWIW.

On the Okna product, you are correct. 5500 is the 500 series just with nailing fin. You can call it either name, you will still get the same window :wink:

Sydla
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Re: Okna versus Preservation

#11 Post by Sydla »

Thanks and I understand that to an extent. But let's say I am building a new house with 30 new windows. Should I be expected to have a separate window contractor install the windows as opposed to the home builder who is building my home? Is that what happens when one builds a custom home? I honestly don't know.

Further, given that I expect some damage to the frame and wall around the window (water damage, etc) wouldn't a contractor be more likely to rectify those issues than a window installer? If the framing around the window has to be replaced because some of the studs are rotted out, can I trust my local Okna dealer/installer to properly handle that task - fixing damaged studs, wall coverings, insulation, etc?

I ask, honestly, because I just don't know the answers to questions like this.

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HomeSealed
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Re: Okna versus Preservation

#12 Post by HomeSealed »

Sydla wrote:Thanks and I understand that to an extent. But let's say I am building a new house with 30 new windows. Should I be expected to have a separate window contractor install the windows as opposed to the home builder who is building my home? Is that what happens when one builds a custom home? I honestly don't know.

Further, given that I expect some damage to the frame and wall around the window (water damage, etc) wouldn't a contractor be more likely to rectify those issues than a window installer? If the framing around the window has to be replaced because some of the studs are rotted out, can I trust my local Okna dealer/installer to properly handle that task - fixing damaged studs, wall coverings, insulation, etc?

I ask, honestly, because I just don't know the answers to questions like this.
Great questions!
Regarding a new home build, you are absolutely correct that most builders install the windows with their framers, as opposed to using dedicated window installers. That said, MOST new construction window installs are done improperly, typically having to do with drainage plane concerns. The new owners don't notice this of course because they have enough to worry about with the 1000 other aspects of the build, and quite frankly, windows (product AND install) are generally an afterthought. We usually get calls 10-15 years later when the damage has been done and had not been noticed... This is one of those valuable things that as an "insider" in any industry, you take with you and share with everyone you know. I'd never let a friend or family member have their windows installed by a framer unless under close supervision of a window professional.
True story: Some friends recently sourced window from me for their new build. Despite my recommendation, they had them installed by the framers, as is customary. Upon visiting the site after the install to deliver a service part, I found a whole host of issues from lack of shims/support, improperly lapped flashing/wrb/nail fin, etc. I documented it with pictures and gave to them to do with what they wish. The builder ended up having to completely rework ALL of the installs in the home... Scary thing is, every other home that they have built probably has those same issues which will ultimately lead to water and air infiltration.

Regarding the possibility of peripheral work around the window installation:
1) This is actually more rare than you might think (sheetrock damage, significant carpentry), particularly on older homes.
2) Window installation companies generally will complete these additional items as well. In fact, a window/siding/building shell specialist will be far more qualified to address these problems correctly.

Sydla
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Re: Okna versus Preservation

#13 Post by Sydla »

Great info. I really appreciate it. The more I research windows, the more I seem to get pulled into a black hole and paralyze myself with too much information. LOL. If you read enough, you'll find someone trashing even the best windows. The one thing that seems consistent - Silverline windows are crap. Hahahaha.

Not sure if this should give me solace given what you said about dedicated siding/window guys but I talked to my friend today about something else he's doing for us on the house and the conversation about windows came up. The actual installation of the windows (and the capping work) will be done by a guy who he hires to do siding/roofing/window installs for him on his jobs. Not just some guy who does drywall one day, framing the next, throwing up cabinets tomorrow and then installing flooring next Wednesday.

TheWindowNerd
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Re: Okna versus Preservation

#14 Post by TheWindowNerd »

In new construction the 5500 would be a nice choice.
My fav is still the 800DX, it is a little bit PIA to use as new construction.

Sydla
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Re: Okna versus Preservation

#15 Post by Sydla »

Looks like we will go with the Okna. Thanks again all for the advice.

But since I have you guys around. LOL. One more question if you don't mind. My brother is buying a new home from a builder which will start construction in the fall. They just started picking fits and finishes. Window options are Andersen 200 series. They are the "included" windows in the price but it seems most people upgrade windows.

Options are Andersen 400, Pella 450 in one option group, then in a more expensive option group, Andersen A Series and then Pella Design Series (750 I think).

He's look at the Andersen 400 since that's the option most other homeowners in the tract have gone with. Although is the 400 worth that much more than the 200 series?

Thoughts? And thanks again for all your insights. Between you guys and what I read on the internet, I've learned a ton about windows.

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