Simonton, Ply Gem or Alside

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HomeSealed
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Re: Simonton, Ply Gem or Alside

#16 Post by HomeSealed » Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:14 pm

1) The Essentials would not be recommended either. The base Sunrise is pretty good, the Provia is pretty good, and the Okna's are excellent.

2) If you are not willing to spend $600 per window, I'd suggest closing the book on this project for now, or again, consider financing. If you are going to be there for 5-10 years, you can do something like a low interest, 84 month term for probably $75 +/- per month. The cheap windows would not be much less from that perspective. Running it out to 10 or 12 years would make the payment that much lower, and if you sell prior to that you just pay it off with the sale proceeds.

3) I'm not suggesting that any of these windows won't "last" for 10 years. I suppose it depends on your definition of "last". Will they rot and fall apart like wood? No. Will the less costly options have more issues (seal failures, warping,etc) during that time and see their performance deteriorate faster? In my experience, yes, and to the point that many folks will be considering replacement around that time. The Simonton 5500 has traditionally not been at that low level, but much like the Great Lakes products, it is a once highly regarded product that is not seeming to keep up with advances in design, and in fact is likely going the opposite direction as part of Plygem. Plygem is a collection of what many would consider pretty mediocre or failing manufacturers that they've re-branded in the name of profitability.

4) The price and product selection are reinforcing the red flags IMO. This is one of the most complained about industries in existence, and despite the perception of "used car salesmen" type tactics, the VAST majority of the real complaints are from folks that picked the low end price option from a contractor that's here today and gone tomorrow. The product options that you are considering are all available to "chuck in a truck" and big box stores and/or building supply houses, and the pricing suggests a higher likelihood of a lower volume, lower quality, shorter history, lower reliability operation. Most pros aren't big fans of Zen Windows and those guys have basically no overhead at all, so anytime someone is coming in lower... Yikes.

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Re: Simonton, Ply Gem or Alside

#17 Post by MNW » Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:34 pm

Hmm thanks for the advice. The main reason I was considering the Simonton is he installed the windows for my neighbor, and my neighbor told me how good of a job he did and recommended me to him.

So far none of the "sales" people have been as bad as a used (or even new) car sales person. One came close, but I threw his quote out right away (he wanted almost $4800 for Alside Mezzo).

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Re: Simonton, Ply Gem or Alside

#18 Post by Bill » Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:53 pm

Your Simonton windows will last 10 years and well beyond that.

We have been selling Simonton for 23 years and the level of customer satisfaction has been very good. We have customers still living in the homes where we installed Simonton over 20 years ago and the windows are fine.

Simonton is certainly a mid-grade product in terms of thermal performance and that’s why we also offer one of the higher performing manufacturers but mechanically Simonton Windows are sound.

You mentioned customer service and warranty? Simonton has the best I have ever experienced.

Plygem has owned Simonton for three years and we have not seen any changes positive or negative.

I doubt you will regret purchasing Simonton Windows.

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Re: Simonton, Ply Gem or Alside

#19 Post by HomeSealed » Mon Feb 25, 2019 7:51 pm

MNW wrote:
Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:34 pm
Hmm thanks for the advice. The main reason I was considering the Simonton is he installed the windows for my neighbor, and my neighbor told me how good of a job he did and recommended me to him.

So far none of the "sales" people have been as bad as a used (or even new) car sales person. One came close, but I threw his quote out right away (he wanted almost $4800 for Alside Mezzo).
MNW, if I had a dollar for every time I heard something similar to that when meeting with someone that was either ripped off or unhappy some years later I'd be able to retire. That's not to say this is definitely a bad company or installer, but do your due diligence. Find a company that has been around for a while and has a good reputation online, certifications, etc, not just a referral from a neighbor and an attractive price. If this guy fits that bill, then perhaps he's worth further consideration.

Let me also reiterate that while I don't love Simonton, as I stated, I wouldn't put it in the same category as most "builder grade" junk. That said, Its not on the level of the better performers as seems to be universally agreed upon, and I'd contend that the money is better spent on a superior product, particularly at the prices presented.

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Re: Simonton, Ply Gem or Alside

#20 Post by toddinmn » Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:57 am

If you’re budget is that tight I would have no problem with the 5500. Putting it in the category of “some “ builder grade junk is a bit harsh and incorrect IMO.

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Re: Simonton, Ply Gem or Alside

#21 Post by MNW » Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:41 pm

The installer of the Simonton 5500 says it includes double strength glass and the super spacer with Cardinal 366 glass.

Do super spacers provide same durability as other types?

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Re: Simonton, Ply Gem or Alside

#22 Post by toddinmn » Tue Feb 26, 2019 8:41 pm

It offers better thermal performance , opinions will difffer on the durability vs the other spacers used.

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Re: Simonton, Ply Gem or Alside

#23 Post by MNW » Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:45 pm

I just got a estimate for Okna Eco Pro for about $4600. This is $1000 more than the 5500 with super spacer.

The upgrade worth it? Is the Okna Eco Pro the 600? Its over my budget, but maybe I will wait if its far better.

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Re: Simonton, Ply Gem or Alside

#24 Post by Windows on Washington » Fri Mar 01, 2019 12:14 am

How many windows is this on again? 8 still?

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Re: Simonton, Ply Gem or Alside

#25 Post by MNW » Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:52 am

Yes

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Re: Simonton, Ply Gem or Alside

#26 Post by randy » Fri Mar 01, 2019 8:27 am

One more in agreement with the other guys. Sunrise’s Essentials line shouldn’t be in consideration at all. Dealers who offer it are merely piggy-backing on the reputation of the primary window lines to sell a low-end model that is sub-par in every way.

Simonton is a poor performer from the start and with vinyl windows in a hot summer environment, it won’t get better and is likely to get worse (particularly when it comes to air leakage). Best bet is to always go with the best quality vinyl window you can afford. As a general rule, contractors who offer premium vinyl windows match it with a premium level installation and contractors who offer lesser windows also skimp on the installation details. Not always, but 90% of the time this will be true because it’s a mindset.

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Re: Simonton, Ply Gem or Alside

#27 Post by MNW » Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:02 am

So eco pro would be premium?

Price seem reasonable?

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Re: Simonton, Ply Gem or Alside

#28 Post by Windows on Washington » Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:44 am

In my book, yes. That is a very good window and an aggressive price...to put it mildly.

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Re: Simonton, Ply Gem or Alside

#29 Post by toddinmn » Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:02 am

Just because the Simonton is an older design does not mean it it is made from a lower grade of vinyl or. Is using cheap parts, I do not see it’s performance shrinking anymore than the Okna or some other top performer.
I would understand decreasing performance with the Sunrise as the frame and the sashes start to bow and drop .

Good price on the Okna.

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Re: Simonton, Ply Gem or Alside

#30 Post by randy » Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:25 am

"Just because the Simonton is an older design does not mean it it is made from a lower grade of vinyl or. Is using cheap part"

Who said that it was?

"I do not see it’s performance shrinking anymore than the Okna or some other top performer"

Who said it would?

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