Non-Removable Jamb Liner

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Delaware Mike
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Re: Non-Removable Jamb Liner

#16 Post by Delaware Mike »

If I were not sure that the jambs were completely vinyl and part of a full vinyl frame and not sort of stubborn removeable jamb liners, I'd remove a casing leg carefully and take a look at the side jamb frame entirely to see if it's wood or completely vinyl. I've never come across your window before.

cdwebb0
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Re: Non-Removable Jamb Liner

#17 Post by cdwebb0 »

HomeSealed wrote: Mon Oct 24, 2022 4:02 pm Looks to me like a welded vinyl frame with wood interior sashes. Hard to say that for certain without poking around at it (its not a window that I've personally come across), but its sounds like you've had a local pro or two out who have confirmed that.
I’m starting to think the same thing (vinyl frame). Oddly the sill which doesn’t appear to be attached to the frame/jamb liners is aluminum.

cdwebb0
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Re: Non-Removable Jamb Liner

#18 Post by cdwebb0 »

Delaware Mike wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 6:11 am If I were not sure that the jambs were completely vinyl and part of a full vinyl frame and not sort of stubborn removeable jamb liners, I'd remove a casing leg carefully and take a look at the side jamb frame entirely to see if it's wood or completely vinyl. I've never come across your window before.
Yeah I think I need remove a piece of the trim/casing and see what’s behind it. I hope I can do it without tearing up the cherry wood work or the painted walls.

cdwebb0
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Re: Non-Removable Jamb Liner

#19 Post by cdwebb0 »

Is it possible to buy replacement sashes that can use the current window jamb / track? I have to assume there is a similar sash available that will fit and seal?

Through a lot of unsuccessful googling it appears the LP brand of windows were sold under the Weather-Seal branding. Also the name NuSash has come up as possibly being associated?

“The company was spun off in 1973 to Louisiana-Pacific, which sold it in 1998 to American Architectural Products, which in 2002 sold American Weather Seal to Monarch Holdings of Des Moines, Iowa. AWS's sister companies are Hurd Windows of Wisconsin.”

Jamb Liner:
https://ibb.co/XtPmQ6n

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HomeSealed
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Re: Non-Removable Jamb Liner

#20 Post by HomeSealed »

If you look at the close up of the upper corner, every joint of the vinyl appears to be welded from the wood interior stop all the way to the exterior surface. That would make an insert install unlikely to be possible if true.

The Hurd H3 (now Sierra Pacific H3) is/was a window with wood interior, vinyl frame, and clad exterior (on the sashes I believe). Your jambs don't look like the current unit, but its possible that it could have been an earlier iteration.

Not sure how many guys you've had out to look, but if its only been one or two, try a couple more and see what they say. Again, we're just making educated guesses without seeing and touching it in person.

TheWindowNerd
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Re: Non-Removable Jamb Liner

#21 Post by TheWindowNerd »

If there is a wood jamb behind the vinyl , the jamb liner should come out. It is either kerfed into the wood jamb or uses a clip system which can be very hard to get loose.
Were either of the two guys who came to your house window installers?
Has anybody in the developement done insert replacements? Ask them or contact their contractor.

cdwebb0
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Re: Non-Removable Jamb Liner

#22 Post by cdwebb0 »

HomeSealed wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 3:05 pm If you look at the close up of the upper corner, every joint of the vinyl appears to be welded from the wood interior stop all the way to the exterior surface. That would make an insert install unlikely to be possible if true.

The Hurd H3 (now Sierra Pacific H3) is/was a window with wood interior, vinyl frame, and clad exterior (on the sashes I believe). Your jambs don't look like the current unit, but its possible that it could have been an earlier iteration.

Not sure how many guys you've had out to look, but if its only been one or two, try a couple more and see what they say. Again, we're just making educated guesses without seeing and touching it in person.
You’re correct. Every edge at the top is fusion welded together. There is no seam on the exterior either. It’s as if the jamb liner and frame are all one piece.

cdwebb0
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Re: Non-Removable Jamb Liner

#23 Post by cdwebb0 »

TheWindowNerd wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 5:35 pm If there is a wood jamb behind the vinyl , the jamb liner should come out. It is either kerfed into the wood jamb or uses a clip system which can be very hard to get loose.
Were either of the two guys who came to your house window installers?
Has anybody in the developement done insert replacements? Ask them or contact their contractor.
I need to get the interior trim off without destroying it. That would help see what’s behind the jamb liner. I’m a little worried though as there does not appear to be any seam on the exterior that would lead me to think the jamb liner is an individual piece.

I’ve had 4 replacement window contractors out to look at it. 1 of those contractors used to work in manufacturing for these windows (American WeatherSeal was a local manufacturer). He’s the one that basically said these “jamb liners” aren’t coming out.

The other 3 all seemed like they could cut and chop their way into getting a replacement to work. But I’m not sure they could create a pocket to get the replacement in without it looking terrible.

There are 22 windows in the house, but none are as bad as these 2. The previous owner must have felt a draft and laid pink fiberglass insulation between the lower sash and sill. Well, that eventually got wet and rotted out the lower sashes.

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HomeSealed
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Re: Non-Removable Jamb Liner

#24 Post by HomeSealed »

cdwebb0 wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 8:30 am
You’re correct. Every edge at the top is fusion welded together. There is no seam on the exterior either. It’s as if the jamb liner and frame are all one piece.
That's the fear, that its really a vinyl frame with interior wood veneer as opposed to a wood frame with vinyl jamb liners. The aforementioned H3 and Provia Aeris are other examples.

I'd heed the advice of the guy that used to build these very windows (assuming that is true). You really can't get a more qualified answer than that.

cdwebb0
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Re: Non-Removable Jamb Liner

#25 Post by cdwebb0 »

I’m afraid I’m looking at full frame replacement for this window.

Do you know anyone that repairs or fixes rotted vinyl wood clad sashes?

It feels weird to call them clad.. because the whole sash looks to be vinyl with pieces of wood glued to the interior for styling purposes.

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HomeSealed
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Re: Non-Removable Jamb Liner

#26 Post by HomeSealed »

I don't think that you will find a "universal" type of product that will work for sash replacement. You could ask the guy that used to manufacturer them if he has any ideas for service parts, otherwise Sierra Pacific possibly might based on your earlier comments tracing the timeline to Hurd (SP bought Hurd).

In terms of repair, someone in the restoration realm may be a possibility.

Either way, I'd be careful about investing too much time or money on these old windows. Going "full frame" on the install doesn't necessarily mean that you need to go all out with nail fins, new interior woodwork, etc, (although its not the worst thing if you did). You should have some options and a range of prices on the installation even if a traditional "pocket" isn't possible.

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