I have been looking for new vinyl replacement windows for a few weeks now, and I have come up with some conclusions.
-Some windows are much more expensive then others. I have had quotes ranging from $6k to 18k
-the 18k windows promise to save 50% off of my heating bil and how they will pay for themselvesl. But if you think about it, if the heating bill is about $2500 and these windows will save 50%, it will $1250...It would take 14 years for them to "pay for themselves". Also if you go with the $6k version (they will save about 25%) it will take 20 years to break even. Thats a looooong time
-I dont understand why windows need steel reinforcement. To me a window SHOULD NOT be a structural member, therefore straight vinyl should be good enough. Can anyone PLEASE explain to me why metal reinforcement is needed.
-Shopping for windows is HARD. Everyone thinks their product is the best and they all have the same basic features. Mostly the R values and U values are about the same (the more expensive are better abvously). But for a normal person to tell a difference, it's not easy.
-Salesman WILL lie...Yesterday a guy at show told me his window had a R-Value of 10 and it will cost $300 to install. But they will pretend to be your best friend.
some thoughts and questions
Couple of thoughts for you.
Nobody should ever purchase windows as an investment with the intention of them acting like a stock or an annuity. Purchase vinyl windows because you need new windows and because they will save you money on maintenence and utilities as opposed to what it would cost to leave the old windows in and do nothing.
Did you include an allowance for yearly increasing gas and electric rates into your payback analysis?
How much more in utilities will you pay if you just leave the old windows in as compared to replacing them? Again, adjusting your figures for price increases. It's also very possible your utilities could double in the next 5 years.
Not all windows need steel reinforcments. Simonton Reflections 5500 doesn't us them and they will make a DH window up to 56" wide. That's better than most manufacturers who use steel reinforcements.
Lastly, any salesman who "guarantees" a 50% savings is usually full of it. I'm not saying you won't save that much but it's nothing but hype. If you read the "guarantee" it usually puts the onus on you to prove to them that you didn't save 50%. That's very difficult to do because each Winter and Summer can be quite different and you would have to prove you didn't change your thermostat setting fromthe year before you installed the windows to the year after they were installed. Even if you could provide absolute undeniable proof, the warranty only would obligate them to pay you the difference between what you actually saved and what the sales claim of 50% was.
In other words, if you are currently paying $2000 per year for heating and cooling and you could prove (good luck) that you only saved 40% they would pay the $200. difference for the first year only!
Good luck!!
Nobody should ever purchase windows as an investment with the intention of them acting like a stock or an annuity. Purchase vinyl windows because you need new windows and because they will save you money on maintenence and utilities as opposed to what it would cost to leave the old windows in and do nothing.
Did you include an allowance for yearly increasing gas and electric rates into your payback analysis?
How much more in utilities will you pay if you just leave the old windows in as compared to replacing them? Again, adjusting your figures for price increases. It's also very possible your utilities could double in the next 5 years.
Not all windows need steel reinforcments. Simonton Reflections 5500 doesn't us them and they will make a DH window up to 56" wide. That's better than most manufacturers who use steel reinforcements.
Lastly, any salesman who "guarantees" a 50% savings is usually full of it. I'm not saying you won't save that much but it's nothing but hype. If you read the "guarantee" it usually puts the onus on you to prove to them that you didn't save 50%. That's very difficult to do because each Winter and Summer can be quite different and you would have to prove you didn't change your thermostat setting fromthe year before you installed the windows to the year after they were installed. Even if you could provide absolute undeniable proof, the warranty only would obligate them to pay you the difference between what you actually saved and what the sales claim of 50% was.
In other words, if you are currently paying $2000 per year for heating and cooling and you could prove (good luck) that you only saved 40% they would pay the $200. difference for the first year only!
Good luck!!
reply
LifeV
As a multi-certified energy rater and building analyst, I can absolutely assure you that the 50% energy reduction from windows alone will not happen. It's a sales gimmick that is typically capped out at a $500 maximum, one-time payout... if you can even prove it. Read the fine print and then throw it away. More heat is lost or gained through homes via air infiltration than is through conductivity of the thermal boundaries (i.e. insulating products). Airflow simply moves heat right around products when given an opportunity. Heat energy follows the path of least resistance.
Good quality windows when "Properly" installed can give you a good return of energy savings and a significant increase in comfort, but they will still fall far short of the insulation performance of the rest of the envelope unless you live in a barn. In addition, even leaky windows are typically only responsible for about 5-10% of the air infiltration/exfiltration in a home. The "drafts" most people feel near windows are a combination of convection currents and replacement air being sucked-in around old windows as heated air is escaping at other areas in the house. The pressure will always look for a way to equalize. Even if you caulked all of your windows shut so they are airtite, but you didn't address the overall infiltration/exfiltration in other key areas of the building envelope, you would simply transfer the draw of replacement air from outside to another location, perhaps through leaky rim-joist pockets or other cavities and gaps around the old jambs if you do an insert install.
Don't get me wrong, windows can definately help in many ways, including great resale value, but they will NOT provide you with anywhere near a 50% savings. There is not a "single-point" solution in any home that will provide this. Change your windows, but for the right reasons so you are happy with your decision instead of feeling disappointed due to bogus promises made by irresponsible and uneducated contractors. Beauty, energy savings, functionality, no maintenance, resale, room comfort, UV protection of interior products, etc..... are all pretty darn good returns too.
Good luck.
As a multi-certified energy rater and building analyst, I can absolutely assure you that the 50% energy reduction from windows alone will not happen. It's a sales gimmick that is typically capped out at a $500 maximum, one-time payout... if you can even prove it. Read the fine print and then throw it away. More heat is lost or gained through homes via air infiltration than is through conductivity of the thermal boundaries (i.e. insulating products). Airflow simply moves heat right around products when given an opportunity. Heat energy follows the path of least resistance.
Good quality windows when "Properly" installed can give you a good return of energy savings and a significant increase in comfort, but they will still fall far short of the insulation performance of the rest of the envelope unless you live in a barn. In addition, even leaky windows are typically only responsible for about 5-10% of the air infiltration/exfiltration in a home. The "drafts" most people feel near windows are a combination of convection currents and replacement air being sucked-in around old windows as heated air is escaping at other areas in the house. The pressure will always look for a way to equalize. Even if you caulked all of your windows shut so they are airtite, but you didn't address the overall infiltration/exfiltration in other key areas of the building envelope, you would simply transfer the draw of replacement air from outside to another location, perhaps through leaky rim-joist pockets or other cavities and gaps around the old jambs if you do an insert install.
Don't get me wrong, windows can definately help in many ways, including great resale value, but they will NOT provide you with anywhere near a 50% savings. There is not a "single-point" solution in any home that will provide this. Change your windows, but for the right reasons so you are happy with your decision instead of feeling disappointed due to bogus promises made by irresponsible and uneducated contractors. Beauty, energy savings, functionality, no maintenance, resale, room comfort, UV protection of interior products, etc..... are all pretty darn good returns too.
Good luck.
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