Windowwizards & OKNA foam fill issues

[thermex]

here is the deal with Okna.
OKNA are NOT in any danger of going bankrupt or in any sort of trouble.
a former employee/installer for Window Wizards was stealing jobs from them and doing the installs behind Window Wizrds back;he was Fired and no charges were files.
Window Wizards had brochures made up with a picture of a corner being completely filled with foam. this was exactly how Okna used to foam their windows;complete frame fill. however,there were so operational issues with the balance due to one side of the extrusion being totally filled with foam so they only partially filled the jamb. new brochures were not made up. in retrospect in they could of had a new brochure made up. further,the performance numbers are still the exact same as the window tested with a complete foam fill. they probably have the best performing window in the industry and every other company is out trying to bad mouth them as i type. these is nothing for any Okna dealers or perspective customers to worry about.
END OF STORY.

[windowdude]

OKNA are NOT in any danger of going bankrupt or in any sort of trouble.
a former employee/installer for Window Wizards was stealing jobs from them and doing the installs behind Window Wizrds back;he was Fired and no charges were files

Huh?!? What does that have to do with a company misrepresenting its products?

further,the performance numbers are still the exact same as the window tested with a complete foam fill. they probably have the best performing window in the industry and every other company is out trying to bad mouth them as i type.

So by your logic if I buy a green window but you install a red one in my home I should shut up and be happy because the U-Factor between red and green is the same?!? You're missing the point.

END OF STORY

Think so?

[greek023]

Thanks guys. I love the quality and smooth lines of the window. I just want the warranty to be there if we ever need it.

[thermex]

greek-
you have nothing to worry about. all the scare tactics are being done by competitors;i would probably do the same thing.

[Skydawggy]

greek-
you have nothing to worry about. all the scare tactics are being done by competitors;i would probably do the same thing.

And all the apologists are those with a financial stake in Okna healing their image. The bottom line is Okna screwed up big time and it will take them a long time to regain consumer confidence, no matter how quickly you want it to go away. Your proclamation that this is the end of the story is laughable. Who do you think you are?

For the record, Okna is not a competitor for us.

[Briant73]

greek-
you have nothing to worry about. all the scare tactics are being done by competitors;i would probably do the same thing.

What scare tatics are those? All I have read is that Window Wizards sold windows manufactured by OKNA, these windows were shown both in brochures and samples having nice full foam filling. The actual product has been found in instances either to have no foam or little foam compared to what was shown.

As to the installer who blew the whistle - Does it matter why the guy was let go - if he was wrong then the product would of shown he was a crank with an axe to grind, but from what I saw and read both Window Wizards and OKNA admit the same thing which is the promotional materials/sales pitch were not correct and they have gone on record saying they want to make things right.

The only thing I have read that smacks of tatics is the stories I'm hearing about the ex window installer. I am reading that he did shoddy work and others saying he stole work from WW behind their back. Either way I am dissapointed to be reading what some people would categorize as a smear campaign about this guy. I hope Okna/WindowWizards take the high road and say that ex employee was fired for due cause and leave it at that. Let everyone have there say in court if it goes that far. In my mind the real issue is what customers were show and received, not an ex-employees work record.

I did a BBB search on WindowWizards and if I found the correct company they had a B rating with 47 BBB complaints in the last 36 months. They claim to a high volume business so that may not be excessive, 14 complaints in the last 12 months. I did this mainly to show what the BBB showed publically and let people decide for themselves. I believe this is the correct listing but if not feel free to correct http://www.dc.bbb.org/report.html?natio ... d=80001766

I hope WindowWizards and Okna do follow through - correct the sales materials, make sure to be honest with customers, and do what it takes to resolve any complaints from customers concerning this issue.

[thermex]

those windows were installed a while ago. they were not newer windows.
the only crime Okna is guilty of is not changing the brochure when they found a 100% foam fill in the frame caused operational problems .

[Briant73]

those windows were installed a while ago. they were not newer windows.
the only crime Okna is guilty of is not changing the brochure when they found a 100% foam fill in the frame caused operational problems .

From the news report I saw it seemed that one of the selling points used in the WindowWizards sales pitch was the foam fill, both WindowWizard and OKNA state they knew the foam fill the windows received did not match what the sales material showed and yet they never changed the sales materials even after two or three years passed?

I would find it easier to accept that the foam fill being different from the sales material representation was due to a very recent change in production and the new sales materials to reflect it were still being prepared.

[Window4U (IL)]

I am sure this has been a real learning experience for Okna and I'd bet they will be very diligent in the future to make sure that the marketing dept. knows what is happening in the engineering dept and on the plant floor. They make some really fine products and I'm sure they know their future depends on keeping a reputation of quality manufacturing.

[shamu]

If indeed this problem went back to windows installed as far back as 2006, there was plenty of time and opportunity to change the sales literature and cornercuts to reflect the changes that were made by OKNA. Sure seems that either one or both knew of the changes and should have been insistent that the product was not being misrepresented.

[thermex]

bottom line,Okna make a great window with one of the best performance numbers in the industry. this was not a case of faulty products,cheap material,or poor customer service. it was a marketing brochure.

[Briant73]

bottom line,Okna make a great window with one of the best performance numbers in the industry. this was not a case of faulty products,cheap material,or poor customer service. it was a marketing brochure.

I am going to have to disagree with you on who's at fault -

What about the sample cut away that showed foam in every part? This has been an issue for 2-3 years yet OKNA and WindowWizards who were aware of the issue never thought to change their sales material or tactics?

The brochure and sample cut away were not at fault, the company's representation of their product was at fault for the past few years. Some windows supposedly don't even have foam fill which has nothing to do with the brochure.

I have sat through enough sales pitches to know that sales people will play up any perceived difference that they feel makes their product superior and I strongly suspect the foam fill of OKNA/WindowWizards product was one of those features that was hyped to show how their window was better than the competing models which lacked foam fill.

I'm sincerely do hope OKNA/WindowWizards do resolve this issue, do right by affected customers, and I hope their windows in every other way meet the specifications they claimed and perform to them. Even if this mistake was an honest oops it doesn't absolve either company from owning up to it and people have the right to question.

[thermex]

does Okna make a great window? yes
does Okna have tremendous customer service? yes
does Okna have one of the best performing windows in the industry? yes
does Okna use high quality materials to construct their windows? yes
should Okna have changes the brochure a few years ago? yes
what else is there to talk about? perhaps hollywood will make a movie about this atrocious action and perhaps Obama will send in the national guard to rescue all those poor victims of a brochure gone bad.

[copykatpro]

does Okna make a great window? yes
does Okna have tremendous customer service? yes
does Okna have one of the best performing windows in the industry? yes
does Okna use high quality materials to construct their windows? yes
should Okna have changes the brochure a few years ago? yes
what else is there to talk about? perhaps hollywood will make a movie about this atrocious action and perhaps Obama will send in the national guard to rescue all those poor victims of a brochure gone bad.

Thermex,
It's clear you either work for the company or have some sort of financial stake in Okna but you're missing the entire point. You need to look at this issue from a consumer's point of view. Okna and WW deliberately duped consumers with false advertising which is against the law. In doing so, they have lost consumer confidence. If this happened for short 2-3 month period and the companies immediately made good then I might still believe you when you say their windows are top quality. However, this has been going on for 3 years and neither company has shown any serious resolve other than to smear the installer, which he may or may not deserve. Either way, it makes Okna and WW look even worse, making it even harder for me as a consumer to EVER trust them or consider putting them in my house. Consumers don't know these windows as well as the people that work with them every day so all they can do is respond to the perception that they're getting great windows from an equally great company. That perception is now gone and Okna and WW are going to have to go an extra mile or two to change that.

I think the worst part of this story is that it makes one question what other companies may be misrepresenting themselves. And as a professional, I think you would be focused on somehow reassuring your customers rather than being dismissive of the issue.

[Will91]

however,there were so operational issues with the balance due to one side of the extrusion being totally filled with foam so they only partially filled the jamb.

I didn't see this in the video or the letters. Did I miss something?