Okna DH800 install question

[Zev]

Hello,

I'm a homeowner, not a professional. I recently had Okna DH800 windows installed in my home. My home has vinyl siding, house wrap, fiberglass insulation. I got multiple quotes, none emphasized the value of new construction windows (with fins / flange) with vinyl siding.

The old windows were cut out. New windows screwed into frame at the corners, osi quad max + spray foam and aluminum exterior capping. I think some of the windows do not have the original j channel, as the installers may have removed it in some cases. Installers did not use drip caps that go under the siding. Installers caulked the top of the aluminum capping above the window to the siding.

Two questions:
1) My home is in SouthEastern PA (Chester County). Any pros that I can hire to check the work and potentially remediate / redo a lackluster install?
2) Is it true the Okna 800 has fins that can snap on and is it possible to re-do the install properly, simulating a new construction method? Note that I'm not asking if it can be done inexpensively, just if it can be done and properly. If not, I still would want to hire a pro to properly investigate and potentially provide better water protection than what is currently in place.

[Delaware Mike]

The 800 does have a nailing flange accessory that attaches via snap-in to the accessory grove of the master frame of the window. The problem that I may see is that the sizing of new construction windows is based upon rough opening sizing and when installers perform an "express" non-removal of the siding type of installation, they typically size the replacement window to fit in between the sheetrock or jamb extension which reduces the sizing by enough that the nail flange might not have anything to bite onto stud and sheathing wise.

It's also very, very hard to get anyone to touch and marry someone elses work. Forget pandora's box, more like that box from the Hellraiser movies. If they removed the top j-channel and course of siding, and then face flanged the top header cap in which it tucked under the housewrap, it may eliminated the need for a drip cap?

[Windows on Washington]

Why do you think the install was "lackluster" in this case. The installation methodology that you reference is a recognized application by the AAMA and their Installation Masters application.

The fact that they used the OSI systems components and did spray foam is already an indication that this contractor is not a rube and the product they are using is arguable the best vinyl window on the market that also comes at an indefinable premium over other vinyl products. Point there being that if they wanted to sell a crap vinyl window and save a few bucks...they could.

The retrofit installation that you reference, without me seeing it and examining it, is an acceptable and recognized application.

While a nailing flange (available as an accessory on the 800) and new construction installation is great and a comprehensive approach, it just isn't an option for most folks and absolutely CANNOT be done in some siding applications without damaging the cladding.

I would love to have everyone of our client be siding clients at the same time, but that just isn't a reality in the other 98% of folks in the market for windows.

[Zev]

Thank you both for your replies, I very much appreciate it.

I think this was a lackluster install because:
1) The main installer showed up on the first day of the installation and slept in his truck the whole day, due to being hung over from attending a football game the night before, leaving his two less experienced, less knowledgeable, and less careful helpers to do half the windows. They use a hand pry, breaking the windows out of the frame, getting glass dust all over my child's room, instead of sawing them out like the main installer did the next day. I'm highly confident they put two of the windows in the wrong place, leaving a larger gap at the top of two of the windows because they didn't have the main installer's measurement notes.
2) Not all level / plumb, damaged some sills during the install process. Left trash around my house, including nails and spray foam in my child's room on the floor. Damaged my carpet.
3) When I say they caulked the aluminum capping at the top of the window to the siding, I checked and had them re-do it because the ones that weren't easily visible could have been done better by someone who was blind and never used caulk before, there were massive open gaps, no exaggerating.
4) I used an endoscope to look behind the capping and noticed that they capped over branches that were stuck behind in the siding that could have easily been pulled out. Now they're stuck and I'll have to try to get them out myself.
Caught lying to me multiple times... I could go on.

If those are the issues I observed, what could I be missing that I can't see under the capping? Poorly applied spray foam and sealant, as well? This is why I want someone else to check their work and rectify their shortcomings. Trust in their work is near zero.

Other than the performance of the individuals, I just have a hard time understanding how sealant and spray foam could possibly be sufficient if there is no flange, j channel, drip cap, etc., with aluminum capping just being caulked to the siding at the top (poorly caulked at that). Add the lack of trust in the installers on top.

I really need a detail-oriented professional to help me evaluate and correct their shortcomings. Any time you repair or replace windows you are, in some way, touching someone else's work. I see no reason why someone wouldn't want to assist a paying customer, with the goal of doing the best they can given the present circumstances, setting expectations and scope in advance of the agreement.

[HomeSealed]

If you would like to post some pictures of your concerns and the overall workmanship we could offer some feedback on that.

As far as the status based on your description, it's unfortunate that things got off on the wrong foot and the installers weren't tidy. Is it safe to assume that you've taken your concerns to the management of this company? I'd concur with WoW's thought that "hack's" aren't typically offering high end windows and using the most expensive caulks, foam, etc. Even if there was an issue with the installer, it makes me think that this is a company that cares about quality.

As WoW also mentioned, the install that they performed, while not the most comprehensive type possible(and should be priced accordingly), is a valid and approved method. Do the windows all operate as they should? Any issues with air or water infiltration?

With regard to hiring another installer, I'm afraid that DM and WoW are spot on. Nobody wants to buy someone else issues. Any installer with the competency that you are looking for would want to install new windows rather than fix someone else's job (assuming of course that fixing is needed). There's an extensive list of reasons for this, from measurements, to risk of damaging the window, to making more money for less headache installing 10 new windows in a day compared to re-working 10 windows in over a day (trying not to damage the existing will slow things down a bit).

Lastly, on a couple of the specifics that you mentioned, adding a nail fin at this stage would range from difficult to impossible based on the sizing issue that DM alluded to and other factors. Frankly, while it is nice under the right circumstances, you can eliminate nearly all possibility of water leaks by popping the course of siding over the window off (with J channel) and adding a head flashing.

[Zev]

Thank you, HomeSealed.
I I think I may go the route of investigating the head flashing that you have mentioned. What is the proper procedure for installing head flashing with vinyl siding and house wrap? Would you have a link to a quality product?

Below are the pictures to reference, I tried to include ones that demonstrate the siding behind the capping.

https://imgur.com/a/YakzJad

Yes, there is at least one window where I do feel some air infiltration. At the bottom corners, I noticed some sill damage, with the sill extruding from the wall a bit. Not sure if that is relevant, though.

[Windows on Washington]

Sleeping off a hangover in the truck is not a mark of a professional to be sure.

Pictures are not as bad as I would have done if I were nursing a hangover to be honest. If there are issues of fitment, level, reveals, etc., those should all be addressed by the installation company.

Caulking isn't the best I have seen, but far from the worst as well.

[Zev]

Thank you, Windows on Washington.

Regarding the head flashing, I found some videos that explain, but please share your opinion on best methods with an Okna DH800, vinyl siding, and house wrap. One video shows bending the edges, the other is flat. Not sure about the role of flashing tape, etc.

https://youtu.be/FWH1qqyTiNk?feature=shared

https://youtu.be/cVckyMUJHQI?feature=shared

Any insights anyone can share on best practices, so I know what to request, would be sincerely appreciated. Can't thank you all enough for your insights and professionalism.

[HomeSealed]

It looks like the installers bent their aluminum to fit over your existing J channel. That's not a method that I favor nor is it common in my area, but it's not inherently wrong either. It essentially maintains the original water management system behind the siding.

If you wanted to add a head flashing this would need to be redone. The flashing then tucks up behind the siding and housewrap (taped to the sheathing ideally), and creates a drainage path for any water that gets behind the siding.

If the j-channel was damaged during the demo of the old windows which happens sometimes, that would explain why they capped it the way that they did and also pose an issue with redoing in a more "conventional" way.... and I put conventional in quotes, as once again some methods are very common in certain areas of the country while seldom used in others.

As far as bent edges vs flat for the flashing, that's a matter of preference. Most are cut flush and flat.