Wisconsin Window Advice

[chzhead]

Looking to replace 10 vinyl windows in eastern Wisconsin. Have had quotes from contractors with Alside, Sunrise, and a local company, Vinyl Pro (the only to recommended storm windows). Is there difference between argon/krypton gas? Don't want the hassle of storm windows but R value is increased by .9. Any other brands I should be looking at?

[Windows on Washington]

Krypton gas performs better than argon primarily in one application, triple pane glass. The smaller air spaces perform much better from a radiant standpoint with the smaller molecule of Krypton.

In a dual pane option, argon is nearly as good and a better value.

[crankthisout]

The windows you mentioned so far are sold through dealers. If you want someone who manufacturers and installs they're own windows then Stanek is a good window to look at. It is also the highest structurally rated window on the market with a DP=70 for the double-hung. Labor, installation, and materials are covered as long as you own your home. You won't see that in the window warranties from the windows you mentioned.

[prosteelheader]

in my opinion, krypton gas isnt worth the up front expense...

[Window4U (IL)]

It is also the highest structurally rated window on the market with a DP=70 for the double-hung.

For informational purposes, so is Softlite Elements.

[Guy]

Argon and Krypton are both inert gasses as are Helium, Neon, Xenon, and Radon. Helium is lighter than air while the rest of the inert gasses are heavier than air. Dry air has a density of 1.29 gm at sea level. Helium at .18 gm and Neon at .9 gm are both less dense than air.

Argon at 1.78, Krypton at 3.75, Xenon at 5.9, and Radon at 9.73 gm are all denser than air. I wouldn't think consumers would really choose the Radon fill but its density is much better. Argon, Krypton, and Xenon can all be used as an IGU infill with various degrees of success. The width of the airspace in the IGU has a great deal of influence on the performance of the inert gas versus air as pointed out above by WOW.

As a general rule, an IGU with air infill reaches its optimum energy perfomance at about 1/2". This is also close to where an IGU with an Argon infill reaches its peak performance. The energy perfomance of the unit will then begin to gradually drop off as the airspace gets wider, no matter if it is filled with air or argon. An IGU with a Xenon infill reaches its peak energy numbers at about 3/16" and then begins to gradually drop off in performance. An IGU with Krypton reaches its peak at about 5/16" and then begins to gradually decline as well. At 1/2", when Argon is at its peak, Kryptons performance is still slightly better than Argon and Xenon is still slightly better than Krypton. The increase in cost will not offset the slight advantage in performance of either Krypton or Xenon versus Argon. If the IGU airspace is 7/16" and greater, then Argon is the best value.

If you are buying a triple pane or a dual pane with IGU spacing of 1/4" or so then Krypton is definitely an option for the greatly improved performance at those spaces. At these narrower spacings a mixture of 25% Argon to 75% Krypton is very close in perfomance to pure Krypton at a bit less cost.

Curiously, at 7/8", the difference in performance between Air and Argon is more, than is the difference in performance between Argon and either Krypton or even Xenon.

Test will be Monday morning at 8:00 AM Good Luck!!!

[Windows on Washington]

Lots of good info in there.

Does Oberon have a twin?

[randy]

Test will be Monday morning at 8:00 AM Good Luck!!!

May I be excused? I have an appointment at 8.

[Guy]

Obi-one is my teacher. He has taught me all I know on glass. I'm trying to find a Yoda with out much luck. I'm getting to old to look. I shall pass the Force to my son. Randy you may go now, use the force.......

[crankthisout]

For informational purposes, the Softlite Elements window brochure says they have a DP=70 but if you go to AAMA website (where they test they're windows) there is no Double-hung listed that has a DP=70:

http://www.aamanet.org/cpd_results3.asp ... &offset=50

Until someone can show some test results, I will venture to say the Stanek window does have the highest Double-hung structural rating on the market!

http://namicertification.com/ProductDet ... x?PID=6520

[TommyJ]

Do you have a test report on that window? What size it is?

Air infiltration data?

[crankthisout]

Certification report as requested:

http://www.namicertification.com/docs/NI009794B.pdf

Air infiltration rate is .04

[TommyJ]

Nothing on that report lists the air data. Doesn't appear to be an AAMA certified lab either.

I would rather have a lesser DP rating and a more airtight window personally.

Thanks for the report though.

[Skydawggy]

I haven't seen a Stanek Window but, it sounds like a pretty good product to me based on the numbers. Of course there are other issues to consider like factory support and long term durability but if I was a homeowner, I'd be taking a serious look at Stanek. A .04 AI rating is something commendable and I certainly wouldn't be swayed to another window simply by a couple of 1/hundreths of a point in AI.

[randy]

I'm with TommyJ on this one. AAMA certification is a must. WIthout it, I don't have much faith in the results.